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State school bans 'chastity rings'

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    You clearly know nothing about the many different branches of Christianity Fiend, and what some of them preach.

    I know full well what those false teachers say, and they can call themselves whatever they want I know what Christ will say to them
    Aladdin wrote:
    Now I'm not necessarily saying the people behind this course are amongst them

    Except your nothing short of rabid denoucment says otherwise.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It is worth adding for the record that the only 100% reliable form of contraception IS abstinence.
    And the least reliable form of contreception is a pledge to abstain.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Terribly cynical... it is possible to abstain you know.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The main target of my displeasure is the existence of a course specifically designed to programme children into refusing to have sexual relations unless they get married.

    That is wrong and sickening at many different levels IMO. And even if this course doesn't threaten with eternal damnation if they dare to have sex, and even if they do not peddle the lies about contraception that the original course in the US is said to have peddled it is a very regrettable affair.

    But then, I suspect they do peddle lies and nonsense after all, seeing as:
    Her ring came from the Silver Ring Thing, an evangelical initiative recently introduced to Britain from the US, with which her parents' local church is involved.

    Silver Ring Thing is critical of contraception, suggesting it is dangerously fallible

    Highly irresponsible, don't you think?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It is fallible though, and it depends on what you call dangerous as to whether the adjective is accurate. And that's whether it was added in by the journalist, most people in this country don't really get abstinence.

    And when I say there could be other definitions of dangerous, it is possible to catch STIs through fallible contraception, not just end up pregnant.

    ETA: I don't really get the whole wearing a ring though, just for the record.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Fiend_85 wrote:
    And when I say there could be other definitions of dangerous, it is possible to catch STIs through fallible contraception, not just end up pregnant.
    Highly unlikely in a loving relationship where you've both been responsible and been tested. But then of course teaching about condoms equals promoting sleeping around with strangers doesn't it? :rolleyes:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    There seem to be two debates here, Silver Ring in principle and then Silver Ring (or any other religious type paraphenalia) being worn in schools.

    When I wore mine I found it was a useful tool to show where I stood. It meant that I had an easy way to tell the guys I was with how I felt, or anyone else that asked.

    Have to confess I now wear mine very rarely and its a standing joke between a couple of mates now, my lifestyle changed somewhat.

    Contraception ( other than abstinence) is fallible and its worthh reminding some of the more care free teenagers that they may have to face some consequences. I think you'll find most ( if not all ) of the course run in this country have a fair approach and give out reasonable information.

    They may point out the limitations of contraception, but in no way recommend not using it at all.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The problem with this course (one of them anyway) is that ultimately is an abject failure. Most people who undertake it end up having pre-marital sex anyway, but are actually less likely to use contraception. So they are far more at risk of the very STDs and pregnancies the course spooked them about.

    Dictionary definition of irony, that is.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'd be less sure.

    I suspect that if they went on the course in the first place then they were already very aware of some of the Churches teaching regarding contraception.

    While it fails and I am one of those failures I don't think its to blame for some of the people it fails for not using contraception, they wouldn't have done so anyway.

    I did it and there's no way I'd sleep with most people without contraception in the form of condoms now.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    The problem with this course (one of them anyway) is that ultimately is an abject failure. Most people who undertake it end up having pre-marital sex anyway, but are actually less likely to use contraception. So they are far more at risk of the very STDs and pregnancies the course spooked them about.

    Do you have a link to any studies? In the US the decline in teenage pregnancy rates is largely attributed to the abstinence movement. It perhaps has had mixed results in places but it's certainly not been an 'abject failure' where it's been implemented. (That said, I don't think the kind of programmes that have worked in America would work in Britain simply because the religious element will not be as effective here). Although I don't see what's wrong with ultimately promoting abstinence in schools and promoting sex solely in long-term relationships but at the same time being realistic and promoting safe sex and contraception. Education needs to cover more than just information about the morning after pill and contraception, it should promote a preference for sex to take place in a permanent relationship. If we just carry on dishing out condoms and colourful leaflets on where to get a morning after pill after a one night stand STD rates are going to carry on increasing. Only by adopting elements of the US model and adapting it to British society and changing attitudes will STD rates and teen pregnancy rates fall.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Sofie wrote:
    But a ring is jewellery. If the girl was to wear he ring, then everyone else would do the same. at most schools (like mentioned earlier) have a no jewellery policy because of health & safety.

    Yes. bangles are jewelry too, if they are allowing bangles on religious or cultural grounds then it is discriminatory to disallow the ring under the same premise.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    However, research by Columbia and Yale Universities found while those who pledge chastity may delay first sex, 88 per cent of them eventually break the promise, and are then less likely than non-pledgers to use contraception.

    I'd call something that has an 88% failure rate and that actually leaves its participants more at risk than those who don't participate 'an abject failure'. Wouldn't you?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    I'd call something that has an 88% failure rate and that actually leaves its participants more at risk of catching the very things it fights against than other people 'an abject failure'. Wouldn't you?

    There's been a lot of studies with very conflicting results. Either way teenage pregnancy rates in the US have fell. The US has lots of abstinence programmes. In the UK with no emphasis on abstinence teen pregnancy rates are rising. (Of course welfare reform has been a factor in the US too). I wouldn't call it an 'abject failure' based on one study when there's lots of other conflicting studies, it'll probably be easier to gauge the impact over a longer period of time. In the mean time I don't see anything wrong with more of a dual approach.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If we just carry on dishing out condoms and colourful leaflets on where to get a morning after pill after a one night stand STD rates are going to carry on increasing. Only by adopting elements of the US model and adapting it to British society and changing attitudes will STD rates and teen pregnancy rates fall.
    Would it not be more effective to look to a better role model, such as Holland or Sweden rather than the country with the highest rates of teen pregnancy in the developed world?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Would it not be more effective to look to a better role model, such as Holland or Sweden rather than the country with the highest rates of teen pregnancy in the developed world?

    No. We generally have much more in common with America, I think there are greater similarities. Anyway, to a large extent we're already using the kind of liberal initiatives that Sweden/Holland use - and they're not working.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    There's been a lot of studies with very conflicting results. Either way teenage pregnancy rates in the US have fell. The US has lots of abstinence programmes. In the UK with no emphasis on abstinence teen pregnancy rates are rising. (Of course welfare reform has been a factor in the US too). I wouldn't call it an 'abject failure' based on one study when there's lots of other conflicting studies, it'll probably be easier to gauge the impact over a longer period of time. In the mean time I don't see anything wrong with more of a dual approach.
    Do you have any links to any other conflicting studies?

    Incidentally, even in the US, luckily the influence of such people is still small amongst the general public. If there have been any fall in preganancy rates I somehow doubt they have had much to do with chastity courses.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    Do you have any links to any other conflicting studies?

    Incidentally, even in the US, luckily the influence of such people is still small amongst the general public. If there have been any fall in preganancy rates I somehow doubt they have had much to do with chastity courses.
    I did a public health course on teenage sexual health and studies show that abstinence + sex and relationships education is the most effective method of preventing unwanted teenage pregnancies. Better than sex education alone, with abstinence only programmes the least effective. No surprises there, but don't undersell the idea that proper relationships education (which may or may not include an element of abstinence) is effective at reducing teenage pregnancies and improving sexual health.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    yes quite right according to the real laws of human nature it is a sin to foresake sex
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    yes quite right according to the real laws of human nature it is a sin to foresake sex
    Well actually there's no such things as right and wrong in nature.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well actually there's no such things as right and wrong in nature.
    Well, we agree about something.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kentish wrote:
    I did a public health course on teenage sexual health and studies show that abstinence + sex and relationships education is the most effective method of preventing unwanted teenage pregnancies. Better than sex education alone, with abstinence only programmes the least effective. No surprises there, but don't undersell the idea that proper relationships education (which may or may not include an element of abstinence) is effective at reducing teenage pregnancies and improving sexual health.
    I wasn't. And I am certainly not against a sex education that includes a message of maturity and responsibility and that tries to educate people about the problems of teen pregancies and STDs. I just thing intitiatives such as the sliver ring thing go well too far and are not only counterproductive but deeply reprehensible.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    I wasn't. And I am certainly not against a sex education that includes a message of maturity and responsibility and that tries to educate people about the problems of teen pregancies and STDs. I just thing intitiatives such as the sliver ring thing go well too far and are not only counterproductive but deeply reprehensible.
    I wouldn't say "reprehensible" but I do think they miss the point.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    They possibly do, but most Sex Ed in schools misses the abstinence line. I guess between the two you get all the info.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't disagree with an abstinence approach, but realistically everyone should have decent sex education which isn't based solely around different types of contraception (how many teenagers use femidoms or caps?) or solely STIs (although the rates are going up and up so something needs to be said), but rather on the relationship aspects such as resistance to peer pressure and having respect for one's own body.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kentish wrote:
    I don't disagree with an abstinence approach, but realistically everyone should have decent sex education which isn't based solely around different types of contraception (how many teenagers use femidoms or caps?) or solely STIs (although the rates are going up and up so something needs to be said), but rather on the relationship aspects such as resistance to peer pressure and having respect for one's own body.
    That's what happens in Holland. They have open discussions in classes and promote the idea of waiting until you are ready, but not just waiting because it's 'wrong' or because your parents want you to. Promoting abstinance is promoting the idea of going against your natural urges. It's trying to counter peer pressure with peer pressure from the opposite point of view, rather than giving teenagers the necessary information to make their own choices. The education should focus on making whatever choice you want for the right reasons, and equipping teenagers with all of the facts (physical and emotional) they need to carry out their choices in a mature and responsible way.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    That's what happens in Holland. They have open discussions in classes and promote the idea of waiting until you are ready, but not just waiting because it's 'wrong' or because your parents want you to. Promoting abstinance is promoting the idea of going against your natural urges. It's trying to counter peer pressure with peer pressure from the opposite point of view, rather than giving teenagers the necessary information to make their own choices. The education should focus on making whatever choice you want for the right reasons, and equipping teenagers with all of the facts (physical and emotional) they need to carry out their choices in a mature and responsible way.
    Excellent post, and put far better than I had .
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    At least we're all agreed that there is something very wrong with the sex education the kids currently get at school.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kentish wrote:
    I wouldn't say "reprehensible" but I do think they miss the point.


    actally i reckon it makes the person more 'sexual' in appearance as well, if sex is so emotional and personal, why tell the world you saving it for marriage :confused: surely its a matter for you and you only until youmeet the one and discuss it with them if you believe in that....


    it shouldnt be sex education but sex+relationship education, and telling them that whatever they do, it is tehir choice ultimately, and its best they're aware of the emotional and physical factors resulting from their choices rather than rush into decisions rashly :)
    telling that to horny 15 year old boys is another matter :lol:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kentish wrote:
    At least we're all agreed that there is something very wrong with the sex education the kids currently get at school.
    Definitely! The sex education my class received at school was in year eleven when the tampax lady gave us the period talk. Ignoring the fact that most of us had started our periods 4 or 5 years previously, the sex education went something like:
    People have sex, use a condom or you'll get a baby. Now we'll watch a cartoon of a woman giving birth.
    Quality stuff.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    when i were a kid ...and my parents before me ...there was no such thing as sex education.
    there were very few single parents.
    very few unmarried mothers.
    i blame the sexties.
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