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"Feminised" lessons, system failing the boys

According to the Daily Mail website: "A generation of boys is leaving school unable to cope in the modern world because lessons have become 'feminised', according to a renowned academic. They are falling behind in exams and the job market because teachers fail to nurture traditional male traits such as competitiveness and leadership. Dr Tony Sewell said schools instead celebrate qualities more closely associated with girls such as methodical working and attentiveness in class. He warned that boys are becoming disaffected and flunk exams and job interviews because their competitive instincts have been discouraged." >> Details >>

Here's an interesting one. I can definitely see some truth in the article. We know that girls do better under the current education system than boys - just look at exam results, for crying out loud. Also, Dr Sewell seems to have his eye on the ball when he points out some boys become so alienated, they turn to violence. Look at our increasingly violent streets. What about the worrying revelations recently that record numbers of kids carry knives to school? It's worth pointing out, though, that women are getting caught up more and more in violent incidents now.

Do we live in an increasingly feminised world? The answer isn't clear-cut, though we can see the idea of "competition" is derided and mocked in our schools. My local primary has got rid of several competitions in sports days, because "we don't want to hurt the losers feelings". Pish. Everybody loses in life occasionally, kids might as well learn that when younger. That way, people don't get a huge shock when they enter the world of work. I should know, I've been there.

It doesn't help we have an exam system where the overriding creed is "everyone must have prizes". Soon, nobody will be able to fail A-Levels and GCSEs, thanks to stupidly high pass rates. I mean, what's the point of an exam if the pass rate is 100%? It reduces the exam to nothing more than a sham! There's no doubt people are going to try and shout me down here, but the truth is, this sort of woolly liberal thinking does nothing but damage to young minds and leaves them totally unprepared for the world.

He suggets some solutions. Getting rid of coursework, for instance. Personally, I think there's too much emphasis on coursework on some courses. At GCSE level, on Information Technology, it was worth 70% of my final mark! Far too high a percentage, if you ask me. Greater emphases on outdoor adventures and sports? When schools are too terrified to let kids go on trips for fear of being sued, and when the Government is busily selling off playing fields to big companies, there's no chance it'll happen. I admire Dr Sewell for speaking out. Doubtless he will now be attacked by a New Labour establishment, desperate to hide the fact their pledge of "education, education, education" has been a sham.

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I agree to a certain extent.
    Apparently there is research that says children actually do better in gender specific schools. i dont know if this is BECAUSE theyre separated, or because gender specific schools are usually private and full of already advantaged kids.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I agree to a certain extent.
    Apparently there is research that says children actually do better in gender specific schools. i dont know if this is BECAUSE theyre separated, or because gender specific schools are usually private and full of already advantaged kids.

    In years 8, 10 & 11 at my school, the top sets for science/english were set by gender (probably haven't worded it properly) and in some ways, it was easier to work and in some ways it wasn't.
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    Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    'Tis true. The current system does indeed favour girls over boys, we've know it for AGES.

    Exams and what girls do well in. Boy don't - our male mind don't work like that. Now see, if we had a practical task, or just sat and talked to a person - say, an examiner for a while about the subject, with certain questions, and got to explain our answesr - we'd probably get on better.

    Exams eat cock.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Teh_Gerbil wrote:
    'Tis true. The current system does indeed favour girls over boys, we've know it for AGES.

    Exams and what girls do well in. Boy don't - our male mind don't work like that. Now see, if we had a practical task, or just sat and talked to a person - say, an examiner for a while about the subject, with certain questions, and got to explain our answesr - we'd probably get on better.

    Exams eat cock.

    You mean you'd rather have an oral exam instead of a written one?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Teh_Gerbil wrote:
    Exams eat cock.
    Sofie wrote:
    You mean you'd rather have an oral exam instead of a written one?
    What are you two saying? :p
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Sofie wrote:
    In years 8, 10 & 11 at my school, the top sets for science/english were set by gender (probably haven't worded it properly) and in some ways, it was easier to work and in some ways it wasn't.
    Ours did that in the final two years in the top sets, and the results were much better apparently. I don't think that seperating boys and girls overall is a good idea. After all, in the real world, you've got to learn to socialise and work with different people. But in individual classes, where individual work is more common, it may be beneficial.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote:
    He suggets some solutions. Getting rid of coursework, for instance. Personally, I think there's too much emphasis on coursework on some courses. At GCSE level, on Information Technology, it was worth 70% of my final mark! Far too high a percentage, if you ask me.
    What is a more realistic representation of what you'll be asked to do in the workplace? Exams or coursework? It's coursework, I'm afraid. However, I think there should be more emphaisis on the practical aspect of coursework. In our A-Level IT coursework, it was not the application we made that was marked, but the write-up. Consequently, my friend, who's application was by far the best in our group, and whose knowledge of using computers was far better than most peoples, got a D because his write-up wasn't up to scratch.

    The only problem with coursework is the potential for cheating. The solution to this would be to do what they do at university, and allow students, with help from the teachers, choose their own completely original subjects for coursework, but I doubt this would be practical with the numbers of students to teachers.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Maybe it's not just education but society in general.

    What changes have been made since boys' attainment started to decline? It was shown that the 11+ marked boys higher than girls, expectations of girls' achievement has changed over the years.

    It is true that secondary education lacks practical activities in many subjects which is a detriment to kinaesthetic learners. I think learning styles should be taken into account rather than just considering gender.
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    Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    Sofie wrote:
    You mean you'd rather have an oral exam instead of a written one?

    Not so much an exam, like... some looser. You know, sit down and show your knowledge of the subject matters. Exam question are too tight and stirct in what they do. They limit you if you know what I mean... there are just a set of tick boxes and key phrases you got to learn to pass an exam, no knowledge is required. Use hte key words... as my Biologoy teacher said: If you don't know the answer, chuck in either Photosyntehis or Surface Area. It'll get you marks.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Teh_Gerbil wrote:
    Not so much an exam, like... some looser. You know, sit down and show your knowledge of the subject matters. Exam question are too tight and stirct in what they do. They limit you if you know what I mean... there are just a set of tick boxes and key phrases you got to learn to pass an exam, no knowledge is required. Use hte key words... as my Biologoy teacher said: If you don't know the answer, chuck in either Photosyntehis or Surface Area. It'll get you marks.
    Exactly, it's all mark by numbers now. I remember in D+T, my project was awful, but I was able to get a C for it because it had a surface finish on it (spray paint, in case you're wondering what I'm on about). Your method would be ideal of course, but it wouldn't be practical with the resources in schools. I imagine they have enough trouble fitting exams in now, without having to sit down with each individual pupil for an hour. One option would be for some sort of system where things like coursework and exams are combined with a mark the teacher gives based on the pupils ability throughout the course. This would give a more accurate measure of the ability of the students.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I agree to a certain extent.
    Apparently there is research that says children actually do better in gender specific schools. i dont know if this is BECAUSE theyre separated, or because gender specific schools are usually private and full of already advantaged kids.
    There are lots of gender specific comprehensive schools as well :yes:

    There is evidence that girls do better in girls school but boys tend to do better in mixed schools, all other things being equal.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What is a more realistic representation of what you'll be asked to do in the workplace? Exams or coursework? It's coursework, I'm afraid. However, I think there should be more emphaisis on the practical aspect of coursework. In our A-Level IT coursework, it was not the application we made that was marked, but the write-up. Consequently, my friend, who's application was by far the best in our group, and whose knowledge of using computers was far better than most peoples, got a D because his write-up wasn't up to scratch.

    The only problem with coursework is the potential for cheating. The solution to this would be to do what they do at university, and allow students, with help from the teachers, choose their own completely original subjects for coursework, but I doubt this would be practical with the numbers of students to teachers.

    'coursework' shouldnt just be something you write though which is what happens a lot at school which is easy to copy

    at university, my coursework involved mini homework problem sheets, with pieces of extended writing and an oral grilling by the course organiser later with maybe a poster talk also - now that's coursework
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Randomgirl wrote:
    There are lots of gender specific comprehensive schools as well :yes:

    There is evidence that girls do better in girls school but boys tend to do better in mixed schools, all other things being equal.

    all boys school is top of league tables, not that i trust leage tables 1 bit really - removal of league tables and formal national exams up to 14 would help this country most

    plenty of teachers i'd reckon are teaching from the cramming guides
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote:
    What are you two saying? :p

    oops... :blush:
    there are just a set of tick boxes

    We had that in Year 10 science for our modules. In one way (for me anyway) it's easier to tick boxes than write out what I think, because I can't explain what I mean and end up talking rubbish. (I did this yesterday I think)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If you want kids to improve we need a lot less exams not more.

    Basically from the age of 14 now you are working towards passing exams, not learning, not enjoying knowledge, not enjoying a subject - just learning how to sit for an hour and pass an exam. No wonder kids are getting turned off.

    We need a system more like the American model where you pass or fail at the end of each year, the tests at the end are only part of your mark and the rest is based on your performance over the year.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Is this pattern just a British thing, or is it happening everywhere?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    bongbudda wrote:
    If you want kids to improve we need a lot less exams not more.

    Basically from the age of 14 now you are working towards passing exams, not learning, not enjoying knowledge, not enjoying a subject - just learning how to sit for an hour and pass an exam. No wonder kids are getting turned off.

    I agree, don't forget kids as young as 6 and 7 are being conditioned to be good at taking exams, its false knowledge in a way because its training them for a skill that they probably wont need as an adult. There should be more emphasis placed on the assessments made by teachers throughout the whole year not just on exam day.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You know, competitiveness and leadership can be just as much female traits as male in my opinion, fuck what people say about the biological differences of the brain, it's about socialisation.

    I don't see how the education system favours girls, the same with the world of work. When people get more freedom they do with it what they want to be fair, girls are no longer so much socialised in to being a housewife or maid and studying home economics and more in to one day being a part of a work force. Society has changed, job roles have changed, it isn't about being sexist... You have male secrataries and nurses now, Thatcher closed down a lot of Britain's "masculine" industry.

    Besides, I'm sorry but in my school so many of the boys dicked about in class. It is as much about an anti-school subculture as it is the education system itself. What about afro-carrebean youths, does the education system favour white people, is it failing certain minority groups or is this down to cultural problems?

    I do believe today's youth is alienated, but not because of some "feminised" vibe that's sliding in.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You know, competitiveness and leadership can be just as much female traits as male in my opinion, fuck what people say about the biological differences of the brain, it's about socialisation.

    No doubt social factors do influence gender roles but to say "fuck biological differences" is a stupid thing to do because they have an effect aswell.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What about afro-carrebean youths, does the education system favour white people, is it failing certain minority groups or is this down to cultural problems?
    There's no clear biological difference between black and white people (beyond a few skin colour genes), whereas there are many more genetic differences between men and women. Therefore, it's far more likely that certain methods of communication and learning can favour one gender over another.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    There's no clear biological difference between black and white people (beyond a few skin colour genes), whereas there are many more genetic differences between men and women. Therefore, it's far more likely that certain methods of communication and learning can favour one gender over another.
    There are physical differences between a black person and a white person, just the same with women and men, but I do believe that most of what we have is gender roles, not huge differences in learning and traits being exclusive to one sex.

    Men can be just as good single parents as women, women can be just as good leaders as men. It's about self-belief.

    But as for this report... It seems like another whiny "women have too much rights and attention" report.
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    Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    As you said, its all Social Conditioning. But one thing remains: Male and Female learn in different ways better. Todays schooling suits Females better.

    But - As for roles n stuff - Social Conditioning. Its what you are told and bought up with to beleive.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    There are physical differences between a black person and a white person, just the same with women and men, but I do believe that most of what we have is gender roles, not huge differences in learning and traits being exclusive to one sex.
    That it though. The difference between black and white men is purely physical, fairly minor, and can be reduced to trends rather than absolute truths. There are differences between men and women that are different between all men and all women. There is no way you can say that the differences in success with various teaching and assessment methods is down entirely to social aspects. Of course they play a part, but they are in no way the only factor.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    That it though. The difference between black and white men is purely physical, fairly minor, and can be reduced to trends rather than absolute truths. There are differences between men and women that are different between all men and all women. There is no way you can say that the differences in success with various teaching and assessment methods is down entirely to social aspects. Of course they play a part, but they are in no way the only factor.


    young, poor white males are in the same catagory as young black males


    anyway theres one simple solution to this countries examination problems, less or none formalised exams and coursework up to the age of 14 to actually make it interesting and arouse kids curiousity about subjects, and better laid out KS4 courses

    id go as far to suggest that 14-16s take less GCSEs thn they do now, just in the main subjects, and then maybe 2-3 others, but still doing the other subjects at GCSE standard, just without all the cw and exams and just receiving a teachers report on their abilities at the end of it, in case they want to progress later on in life
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    That it though. The difference between black and white men is purely physical, fairly minor, and can be reduced to trends rather than absolute truths.

    There are biological differences between whites and blacks and indeed between every other race.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    However there are no differences between anyone better at playing basketball, multi-tasking or parking a car.

    It's all preconceptions and bollocks.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    turlough wrote:
    There are biological differences between whites and blacks and indeed between every other race.
    Only because we catagorise people based on biological differences. There is an obvious blurring of the lines. It's like saying there's a clear biological difference between tall people and short people. Of course their is, but only because you're catagorising them based on their physical features. With men and women there is no blurring, it's black and white. All women do have a uterus. All men do have a penis, for example. There are no catagories or groups to be invented, they already exist in the real world.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    young, poor white males are in the same catagory as young black males


    anyway theres one simple solution to this countries examination problems, less or none formalised exams and coursework up to the age of 14 to actually make it interesting and arouse kids curiousity about subjects, and better laid out KS4 courses

    id go as far to suggest that 14-16s take less GCSEs thn they do now, just in the main subjects, and then maybe 2-3 others, but still doing the other subjects at GCSE standard, just without all the cw and exams and just receiving a teachers report on their abilities at the end of it, in case they want to progress later on in life
    i agree, we are made to take WAY too many subjects at gcse, in all i've done 11 including double science and english - but they way they set our choices out make us do as many as possible
    i find it difficult to concentrate on so many different subjects which is why i don't think i'm going to do aswell as i could
    but tbh, even if the system was changed there would still be loads of boys slacking off. It seems that on the whole, girls work harder. I'm not saying that boys don't, but it seems more of a social thing in boys to do crap.
    But the reason they changed the system in the first place was because too many pupils were finding it hard to pass when they just sat an exam.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ballerina wrote:
    in all i've done 11 including double science and english .

    Which is entirely a good thing, it (hoepfully) instills a good general knowledge base.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    bongbudda wrote:
    Which is entirely a good thing, it (hoepfully) instills a good general knowledge base.


    if you read what i wrote, less would be formally examined for a student, only the core ones and maybe 2/3 of students choice, the rest of classes they would do still but they will just recieve a semi-detailed teachers report, mainly just so future reference recievers can find out what their attitude was like
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