Home Politics & Debate
If you need urgent support, call 999 or go to your nearest A&E. To contact our Crisis Messenger (open 24/7) text THEMIX to 85258.
Options

Is Islam evil?

1235»

Comments

  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Iknowiknowiknow, it's little bit offtopic under this thread....i guess :chin:
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The reason rape and sexual abuse is high in muslim countries is becuase women in their societies have few human and civil rights compared to men, and must be covered up. So when they see western girls wearing a t-shirt or showing abit of skin they perseve them as "easy" or whores and make passes at them. I'm big traveller and when I look up travel infomation for muslim countries like Malaysia or Indonesia it always says "beware this is a muslim country and sexual assault is very common etc."
    Its not a coincidence that most islamic nations are autocratic or theocratic regimes and that the countrys themselves aswell as the countries that border them receive large amounts of violence and terrorist activities.
    Is rape and sexual abuse higher in muslim country's because they're muslim though? Or is it more to do with the culture of those countries, and the effectiveness of the authorities at dealing with these issues? Saying that it is because these countries are populated by muslims is like attributing America's higher rates of certain crimes to it being populated mainly by Christians.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Is rape and sexual abuse higher in muslim country's because they're muslim though? Or is it more to do with the culture of those countries, and the effectiveness of the authorities at dealing with these issues? Saying that it is because these countries are populated by muslims is like attributing America's higher rates of certain crimes to it being populated mainly by Christians.

    Its not, its becuase muslims arent used to seeing women living free or showing any skin, so they assume their easy and grope them on trains/in the street etc. In these countries Islam is like 95% or somthing, christianity is far far lower in the US and women have equal rights, which they dont in muslim countries becuase of the rules of Islam being part of society. Also in muslim countries women are usually ignored and spoken to through the man and when visting someones house they may have to eat and sit in a different room to the men, on their own if nessessary.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Its not, its becuase muslims arent used to seeing women living free or showing any skin, so they assume their easy and grope them on trains/in the street etc. In these countries Islam is like 95% or somthing, christianity is far far lower in the US and women have equal rights, which they dont in muslim countries becuase of the rules of Islam being part of society. Also in muslim countries women are usually ignored and spoken to through the man and when visting someones house they may have to eat and sit in a different room to the men, on their own if nessessary.
    All of that is cultural though. Muslim women covering up doesn't happen in this country to the same extent, and any that does is a result of people bringing their own culture over when they move here, not the religion. If it was a result of the religion, then surely all muslim women in this country would be covered up in public, but they're not because they're living in a western culture.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yes, but thats because Islamic nations culture, socitey and government is based upon religion but in the UK is based upon freedom and democracy and religion is secondary. For example in Saudi it is illegal for women to drive, thats because of Islam, however in western countries, that would be seen to breach human rights.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What, you mean like the Church of England? Or America? One nation under God? It's nothing to do with Islam, just certain cunts getting into power and using Islam as their reasons for doing certain things like oppressing women. I would guess (because I don't have any actual statistics) that most types of crime in these countries is higher than all western countries. It's the same in South American countries. It's nothing to do with religion, and everything to do with poverty.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I disagree,
    The Church of England is only there really as a Christian authority, it doesnt really get involved in creating policy, unlike in pretty much (if not all infact) muslim countries, even the richer ones with lower poverty levels. America, well their a bit different cuz their very religious and are governed by a religious dictator ;)
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The religion it's self isn't evil but when it's interpreated by some yes I would class it as evil.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I disagree,
    The Church of England is only there really as a Christian authority, it doesnt really get involved in creating policy, unlike in pretty much (if not all infact) muslim countries, even the richer ones with lower poverty levels. America, well their a bit different cuz their very religious and are governed by a religious dictator ;)
    If the US is the worst example you could think of for Christain dictatorship then in it's current form, Christainity in comparison to Islam is not evil.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Seperation of Church and state is not known under Islam. The Caliph is supreme as a political and religious leader.

    And if you want bad examples of Christians, go to Africa and the Lebanon. The Christian militias in the Lebanese civil war were as brutal as hell.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Your right in what your say, although Islam is significantly worse than other major religions, I mean any religion that condones killing or has a violent religious figure such as muhammed (compare him to Jesus...) is inherently bad. I think however that religions such as Buddusim are amazing. Its peaceful, harmonious and respects ALL living things. I've just came back from Thailand, and you wouldnt believe how much an effect Buddism has on society. It keeps crime levels low and produces the nicest and friendliest people you could ever meet. However in the far south of Thailand there is a large muslim population and so its quite dangerous for women due to molestation and ofcourse there been a few bombings, which you dont find anywhere else :rolleyes:

    Jesus forcibly turned the money lenders out of the Temple and told his followers he had come not to bring the peace, but a sword. He also instructed his followers to sell their cloaks to buy swords and travelled with extremists figures of the time, including at least two Zealots.

    See, its all in selective quoting.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don’t think it’s so much about Islam but more cultural

    Very true. Alot of the areas Islam developed in were desert and highly tribalized areas. Such areas develop warrior cultures and a disregard for the rights of others very quickly. This can be seen in the Koran where Mohammed condones the raiding of trade caravans, for a simple example.

    The Turks are an odd one though. Historically, the Turks have been the ruling tribe of others, the Seljuks in particular, meaning they have a far more pragmatic and so western view of religion. In my experience at least. However, I still say Saudi Arabia and Pakistan are the cause of the current problems. Nigeria, for example, had very little problems with Islam until the Wahabi preachers arrived. Before then, the Sufi majority were pretty chilled, as Sufis tend to be.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    And to apply the label of 'evil' to members of a religion is still arrogance in my eyes.
    ^ Nobody is applying the label of 'evil' to members of the religion.

    We are asking whether the religion itself is evil. Or whether the founder of the religion (aka Muhammad) was evil.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    sanitize wrote:
    ^ Nobody is applying the label of 'evil' to members of the religion.

    We are asking whether the religion itself is evil. Or whether the founder of the religion (aka Muhammad) was evil.
    A religion is just an abstract concept. How can it be evil? Only actions can be evil.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    A religion is just an abstract concept. How can it be evil? Only actions can be evil.
    ^ I don't quite get where you're coming from. Of course a religion can be evil.

    You've been mentioning in this thread that 'Islam' isn't evil... and 'Islam' isn't to blame etc.

    Can you please define what 'Islam' is according to you?
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    sanitize wrote:
    ^ I don't quite get where you're coming from. Of course a religion can be evil.

    You've been mentioning in this thread that 'Islam' isn't evil... and 'Islam' isn't to blame etc.

    Can you please define what 'Islam' is according to you?
    Islam is exactly what I said it was. An abstract term given to a set of ideas and beliefs covering a variety of issues. I assume that if you believe that an abstract set of ideas can be 'evil' you must also believe that a film or a play or a book can be 'evil' as well then?
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    sanitize wrote:
    Of course a religion can be evil.

    How so?
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    There are quite a few posters who pronounce,with certainty, that "fascism" is evil.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If a religion condones murder and promotes oppression aswell as other "evil" things, that is its ideology, and is therefore evil. Dont try and compare Jesus to Muhammad, becuase its laughable, the two are completely different, I may not be christian but I know that Jesus preaches peace and love, he doesnt abuse children, murder people and preach hate. Yes, you may be able to nit pick a few quotes out of the Bible (mainly old testement anyway) but you can find loads in the Koran and we see it today in every corner of the world. The thing you need to ask is that if Islam disappeared tomorrow the world would be a much, much better place, and may wars and deaths would be prevented. If a religion like buddism or even Christianity disappeared it would create the opposite effect, especially in the case of the buddism. Its not religion, its Islam, and although most religions can cause violence, its not enough to call them evil, however Islam simply has to much negative content. Dont just play devils advocate and straight away try to figure out a counter post, think about it.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If a religion condones murder and promotes oppression aswell as other "evil" things, that is its ideology, and is therefore evil.
    And who's interpetation of Islam decides whether or not it "condones murder and promotes oppression"? Yours? Maybe if I intepreted a film in a similar light, that film would also be evil? It's text on the page. It can never be evil. I could write "it is the duty of everyone to go and murder their neighbour" but that alone has no negative effect on people. If they chose to do that, it would be their own free choice, and it would be their actions, not my writing, which would be evil.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    seeker wrote:
    There are quite a few posters who pronounce,with certainty, that "fascism" is evil.
    That's probably because facism is more obviously linked to a certain set of actions. It is still the actions, not the ideology that would be considered evil by most.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    That's probably because facism is more obviously linked to a certain set of actions. It is still the actions, not the ideology that would be considered evil by most.

    Yes and no.

    Or more accurately,no and yes to your two statements.

    It isn`t obvious to me. If I were to ask "What is fascism ?", my guess is that many answers would differ. And that`s before we get round to any perceived linked actions.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    There are no Christian dictarorships...silly people. Anyway, been talking to a Pakistani Muslim this past few weeks and I've learnt alot. It's all to do with interpretation of the Koran, 99% of Muslims deplore violence against "infidels". Won't stop the gutter press and fascists saying otherwise though! Meh I don't give a fuck either way! Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    turlough wrote:
    There are no Christian dictarorships...silly people.

    "Kingdom of heaven" ?
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I find it quite remarkable that there is a seperation of the intention of religion and it's actual real world effects.

    It's like the "it's not real communism/democracy/butter" arguments.

    Every time a religion holds sway over a population the result is utter misery. Fact.

    The less religious people are and the more they favour things like the scientific method the happier they become, the higher their standard of living and the more freedom they have. Also fact.

    Religion is therefore evil in it's outcome. This is true at all places and times throughout history.

    That being the case, who cares for it's intentions?

    If you have a psychotic parent who beats you from a sense of warped love, do you give a shit why they are hitting you or do you just want them to stop?
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    seeker wrote:
    "Kingdom of heaven" ?

    Dictatorship? Everyone is equal in heaven.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Islam is exactly what I said it was. An abstract term given to a set of ideas and beliefs covering a variety of issues. I assume that if you believe that an abstract set of ideas can be 'evil' you must also believe that a film or a play or a book can be 'evil' as well then?
    ^ Let me pose another question then:

    Is Islam a peaceful religion?

    Would your answer still be the same?
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    sanitize wrote:
    Is Islam a peaceful religion?
    Nope.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    turlough wrote:
    Anyway, been talking to a Pakistani Muslim this past few weeks and I've learnt alot. It's all to do with interpretation of the Koran, 99% of Muslims deplore violence against "infidels". Won't stop the gutter press and fascists saying otherwise though! Meh I don't give a fuck either way!
    ^ I really really really wouldn't believe everything this Pakistani Muslim says if I were you.

    Please don't be so naive and gullible.

    I disagree with your figure of "99%". But I definately agree that the vast majority of Muslims deplore violence and just want to live a good life. Thats because these people are human before they are Muslim.

    .
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    sanitize wrote:
    ^ I really really really wouldn't believe everything this Pakistani Muslim says if I were you.

    Please don't be so naive and gullible.

    I disagree with your figure of "99%". But I definatley that the vast majority of Muslims deplore violence and just want to live a good life. Thats because these people are human before they are Muslim.

    .

    I don't agree with the above person, in order for you to understand muslim, at least you have to talk to someone who is from mulim background, eventhought i don't have a very good impression about this religion. but that's only way you can find the only truth behind all the propaganda.
Sign In or Register to comment.