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What we have here is two groups of people who have two differing fictions to inflict upon each other (using all the violence they can grab hold of) and each insisting that there particular brand of fiction is the best one.
To argue which fiction is best and should be forced on a given area at the barrel of a gun leaves a wealth of options closed and really is no way for any adult human being to conduct theri affairs.
Why? Who said i am moral? I am probably the only poster on the board who will freely admit that if all the other posters died at the end of my street, the only thing I would be bothered about is climbing over them and getting to the shops. Of course, the same is true of all of them, but I am happy admitting it.
As you know it. I have never lived in a "country" and nor would I want to. Why tell yourself lies about the world? What is this soceity that you speak of? What does it look like, sound like, what is it's smell? Or are you one of these lunatics who think that having ten men in a room automatically creates an 11th?
not long before you will be looking back on this prosperous time with longing in your heart.
but if i were you ...i'd count your blessings.
count them quick.
we can no longer sustain the lifestyle we have grown accustomed to slagging off so much.
oh how prosperous and safe these times will seem to you a little further down the road.
seriously ...count them blessings.
count 'em now!
There's nothing wrong with strike action. If everyone united and demanded all wages be increased by 20% and the working week reduced to 4 days then there would be no option but to agree to the demands, financed from excessive profit.
People don't, and business gets away by paying an accepted minimum which could, potentially, be a lot higher. What's wrong with that?
The secondary strike action last year at British Airways, in support of action for Gate Gourmet catering, for example, was illegal. Every person who took part in the secondary strike should have been sacked. Every last one.
The possibility is that by giving them some political power and applying pressure as donors (like the USA are doing) will cause Hamas to distance themselves from the violent terrorist wing. They now have to start considering voters, setting up a new Government etc and how to maintain they stay there. If the money for the Palestianian Authority isnt coming in because of the armed wing, its going to make them unpopular with the voters and Hamas' political leadership. Of course, it wont happen overnight. But it will be interesting.
I agree with what you've said. I'm not sure what Hamas is going to say or do next, though. I'm struggling to see if a group that wants Israel obliterated will negotiate with them.
Businesses can't afford to pay everyone more money? How does that work, considering an enormously disproportionate amount of wealth is held by about 1% of the population? Why can't that be redistributed more fairly amonst the other 99%?
Thanks for the welcome. I'm thinking eventually, if they dont want Fatah to win the next election, they wont have a choice. I suppose it comes down to how committed they are to the democratic process vs the military ones. I get the feeling the former will win though, as the latter is hardly succeeding. But I may be wrong there, who knows?
terrorists now wearing suits and talking ...negotiating ...making compromises.
people who israel can't fuck around with so easily.
There's a bigger impasse over there though...Israeli won't budge, the Palestinians won't budge, there's no obvious potential solution to be negotiated as there is with NI.
I reckon it can unfortunately only get worse, and will do so in coming years with the prospect of further US invasions in the area looking ever more likely.
If it is not we can wait for ever! Hamas need to be fully recognised as the Government before they can actually do anything at all...
As for the other thing, the IRA tried to kill Thatcher with a bomb and did murder Lord Mount Batton.
Also, redistribution of wealth is a hugely different and complex concept and is not just about ruining Britians competivity by shorting the working week and paying people more, making the country ridiculously expensive to live in, impossible to gain investment in and cause the highest unemployement the world has ever seen.
That wouldn't be the case if everyone made the same demands.
It wouldn't be the first time strike action has shortened the working week either.
they already provide the people with medical aid and social services ...it will be very interesti ng to watch.
Yes, if everyone in Britain did it then it is what would happen. The only way to avoid it is if everyone on the planet made the same demands in strikes and that is impossible! Some places don't even have Unions and use slave labour, after all.
Yep thats another thing. Hamas actually help save Palestinians lives...no wonder they came to power. Give them a chance I say.
Cause Arafat wasn't a terrorist?
Then again, he never wore a suit. So I guess that makes all the difference... :yeees:
No excuse whatsoever for the continuning occupation of the West Bank. As you know full well.
It never has, not once.
Massively generous? LOL!
Two points:
1. To return stolen property is not "generous". If a burglar broke into your house and nicked £10,000 worth of equipment, and later said "I'm going to be really generous in here and return £6,000 worth of gear- don't mind me if I keep your laptop, plasma screen and music collection though" would you say that was really generous of him?
2. And as for the offer itself, let's see how generous it really was, shall we?
How about Israel promises to withdraw in full from the West Bank as per 1967 borders in exchange for a full and total stop to terrorist activity?
Is that a good compromise enough?
Because what you are failing to grasp, unintentionally or otherwise, is that Israel has never, ever said it might be prepared to withdraw in full. Not even if the Palestinians were to stop all terrorism forever. Not even if Hamas was dismantled. Not ever.
So what exactly are the Palestinians to gain from peace based in all offers to date, other than to stop being abused, oppresed, tortured and killed? They will still have large chunks of their land stolen and occupied forever.
How about Israel, for the first time since the conflict started, offers to once and for fucking all withdraw in full from Occupied Palestine, as it should have done decades ago, if the Palestinians renounce to violence and all terrorist organisations are dismantled?
That is the crux of the problem. And no matter how much spin you want to put on it, for as long as Israel refuses to return the stolen land there will never be peace.
That said, someone needs to sort out the settlers, who it seems are usually religiously motivated and/or Americans who don't have sufficient understanding of the conflict and act on poor information (a substansial number of Americans believe that the Palestianians stole land from Israel, for example).
A two state solution does have the problem of the conflict escalating into military terms, especially if Hamas manage to create a national army and go to other Arab states hostile to Israel and make military treaties (Syria and Iran spring to mind). The funding angle can be used to pressure the Palestianian Authority, but if the funding is finally witheld the political leadership of Hamas will crash and burn, leaving a failed and hostile proto-state on Israel's borders, what they fear most. Its unlikely, but possible. What will hopefully happen is the right amont of pressure (and covert funding to Fatah) will get the more rational Nationalist politicians back in power and running the show again.
A one state solution is even worse, although I've heard it bandied around now and again. The Zionists wouldn't accept it, the Islamic groups would never accept it and the Nationalists would never agree to being part of a state called Israel.
1) Israel will not withdraw from Palestinian land so long as any violent actions are carried out against them.
2) Palestinian groups will not stop using violence as a method of opposition to Israel so long as the Israelis are occupying land.
I do not think the solution is simply a withdrawl however or a compromise. Palestinian territories are scattered and not connected after all and i doubt even after a withdrawl the Israelis would allow travel through their land.
I can not see the Zionists or the Fanatical Muslim leaders ever accepting anything other then the total extermination of their enemy or possible displacement fromt he region.
Neither side is blameless, but then again, neither side can even offer a solution that will lead to peace, because there are too many different elements on either side who do not wish for peace, only total victory.
And if there are, why not make up lots more?
they now have to learn all about compromise and even keeping the electorate happy.
they now have to operate more and more like all the other suits on the world stage.
do you actualy know how many israeli leaders were terrorists?
Was that a question for me?
Cuase i did mention there were elements within elements at work not just Israelis and Palestinians and opponents united into two camps.