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what is your viewpoint of feminism?

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    yes but they have equal rights, and their equality isnt decided by the fact of which gender they happened to be born as.

    That is unfortunatly not true on paper, there is laws that have been done specialy to protect women and those haven't been created for men as well.

    Men and women are different and always will be.

    There is stuff women do men can't do and there is stuff men do women can't do. It is the way it is and it is define by the gender. First at all our bodies can't do the same, our brains are not the same and we don't think the same.

    In front of the law, tho, there should be equality, but it is not there yet.

    Now in front of the law women are in favor and frankly I have no problem with that, the world has been a men world nearly since forever, it is about time stuff are done for women.

    But in some cases some laws for women sucks tho...

    If some of you have seen some father and divorce forums there is a lot
    of case that end up in favor of the women even tho it shouldn't be that way.

    In france that for sure. A mate of mine got married, less than a year after his wife left him for an other man and he ended up paying her 6,000 euros even so they have been together for 7 years and he has always be the only one working and provided her with everything she needed. He is even lucky as she could have even ask a life pension!

    My ex-wife left me and have broken at least 3 main laws of french marriage, but she will end up taking some cash off of me, even if I brang more money into her marriage than she did and she can also ask for a life pension which all I can do is hope she will not do, otherwise I'll have to pay her for life for screwing me over...

    And after they wonder why some of us don't believe in laws, justice and equality for all...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Feminism is suppose to be about equality, but its all about superioroty now!

    Who needs it anymore when its such a corrupted and abused concept.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    :banghead: really? tell me, which feminist literature have you gleaned that from? or which particular feminist groups or activists?

    Germaine Greer!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well its hypocracy at its core dont you think, women only institutions claim to be fair, but the members of those institutions shout about discrimination in gentlemen only clubs, even though they themselves deny men entry to their women only groups. With foundations like that you can not take such a group seriously. Also any modern feminist literature, of which there is numerous if looked at objectively can be seen clearly as biased and seeking to advance women to superior positions as opposed to fair and equal ones. Look at anything in the feminist section of the Leeds University Library, thats what i did when i was there studying and we had to examine Feminism as a concept, theory, practice and political ideal.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    We'll you'll need to provide some evidence that that's what Germaine Greer has said.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Jim V wrote:
    We'll you'll need to provide some evidence that that's what Germaine Greer has said.

    It was tongue-in-cheek.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Germaine Greer? One feminist that practically doesnt right anymore compared to library fulls of books...who needs telly whore Germaine Greer anyway
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    subject13 wrote:
    Feminism is suppose to be about equality, but its all about superioroty now!

    Who needs it anymore when its such a corrupted and abused concept.
    no it isnt. its still about equality.
    Who told you it was about superiority. Thats such an annoying myth
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    To be honest I've never seen a feminist group that excluded men - I'm seen rape survivor groups and battered women's centers that exclude men because it would make a difficult environment for the women in the meeting. And I've read a hell of a lot of literature from the various schools of feminism and would argue they don't read to me the way they did to subject13.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I still love GG. :love:

    go on, flame me.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Germaine may well a "telly whore" now, but she wrote 'The Female Eunuch' and as far as I'm concerned she can go on as many reality TV shows etc as she likes and I will retain complete adoration for her and her work.

    I concur, RB. :)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Oh yes, I met her when it first came out (she did a tour of speaking engagements and my Mum took me to the one in Newcastle, probably my first real foray into feminism) and she signed my copy of 'The Whole Woman' - 'tis greatly treasured.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I have a degree. I read loads of them books day after day, when i studied feminism in my second year.

    The original feminist philosophy was right, justified, and accurate, i.e. what was written in Germaine Greer's day.

    What came later and recently has changed and corrupted the core principles, hence why there are so many court cases of sexual discrimination for claims of millions of pounds or dollers over things like been asked to work and do their jobs.

    Read what i actually say in future and not what you want to see scarlette. It may help you not look silly by been insulting for no reason.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I agree with the principle of equal pay for equal work, but that's about it.

    The main problem i have with feminism is the refusal to accept inherent difference between man and woman - if i acted/spoke the same way to both males and females for example, i wouldn't be too popular with the opposite sex. And that's a massive understatement.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    turlough wrote:
    I think kermits old av was "Feminism is the radical notion that women are equal" and yes that's true, legally they are entitled to the same rights men are. However, they're not equal psychologically or physically equal so I can see how some people can see feminism as a problem, that it de-genderizes society.

    Yes, you're right.

    Women shouldn't be treated as second class citizens, but ignoring fundamental differences is problematic.

    Femininity is a highly attractive virtue, that's something which needs to be recognised and not discarded.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    still no mention of what the aims of the movement are.....
    It depends on the type of feminism, there are several.
    I see it as encompassing more and a political ideology, it's a collection of philosophies, feminism can talk about gender sterotypes, women's rights, gender roles, sometimes even ecology... And so on.
    The original feminist philosophy was right, justified, and accurate, i.e. what was written in Germaine Greer's day.

    Greer was by no means the first feminist. I hope you didn't put her down as the first in your assignment. What about Wollstonecraft? The Suffragette movement? Just to start.

    I don't see how anybody can have an issue with women wanting the same rights as men. Personally I like being able to vote, I like the fact we have the pill and that we are entitled to equal wages.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What about Wollstonecraft?

    Oh yes. :yes:

    subject13, if your journey through feminist literature hasn't already led you to 'A Vindication of the Rights of Woman' then I suggest you seek it out.

    It was written over 200 years ago. :)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    what i do want is for femininity to be valued on a par with masculinity, rather than being told that women can be equal with men, as long as its on men's terms, and if they turn themselves into men in the process.

    What sort of things are you specifically talking about when you talk about equality on man's terms?

    I can see your point, but the nature of masculinity and femininity are such that they can't be equal in all spheres of life.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    still no mention of what the aims of the movement are.....

    Which movement? There isn't one "feminist movement". There are many different schools of thought under that banner. Liberal, women centred, Marxist etc. Its a nonsense to say "feminism is this or that" without telling us which feminsim you're talking about.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Spliffie wrote:
    I agree with the principle of equal pay for equal work, but that's about it.

    The main problem i have with feminism is the refusal to accept inherent difference between man and woman - if i acted/spoke the same way to both males and females for example, i wouldn't be too popular with the opposite sex. And that's a massive understatement.

    how much of that is due to inherent differences and how much due to socialised differences?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    how much of that is due to inherent differences and how much due to socialised differences?

    Bit of both, but there are significant inherent differences between males and females.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Spliffie wrote:

    Femininity is a highly attractive virtue, that's something which needs to be recognised and not discarded.

    "feminity" is socially constructed. Not the fact that men and women are different, but how that difference manifests itself, what it means culturally and how it influences power relations. So merely saying "Femininity is a highly attractive virtue" is meaningless without unpacking what "feminity" actually means, who gets to define it, how the ideals are transmitted, who stands to gain/lose etc.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    turlough wrote:
    Bit of both, but there are significant inherent differences between males and females.

    Yes, there are differences. How significant (or not) they are however is not known. So much of how we perceive "masculinity" and "femininity" is dependent on social and cultural context.
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