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drug crime

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    What do you mean by "therapeutic"?
    Being used as a treatment.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kentish wrote:
    McDonalds provides food, which is essential for life. Generically, McDonalds presumably refers to any food retailer.

    If the government gave everyone a rope and told them that rock climbing was a good and harmless thing to do, do you think this would result in more people taking it up, and more people coming to harm through it?

    I don't need to clutch at straws because I stand by my argument.

    You seriously think that stands as an argument? :lol: We're not talking about the government handing "everyone a rope [drugs] and told them that rock climbing [drugs] was a good and harmless thing to do". That's a complete straw man, I guess because you know you're losing so you'd like to misrepresent and reframe the entire argument. I thought better of you Kentish. :(
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kentish wrote:
    Being used as a treatment.

    Not what I mean by therapeutic but never mind. I'm not sure what you point is anymore.
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    SkiveSkive Posts: 15,286 Skive's The Limit
    Kentish wrote:
    If the government gave everyone a rope and told them that rock climbing was a good and harmless thing to do, do you think this would result in more people taking it up, and more people coming to harm through it?

    Is that what we're proposing they do with drugs?

    No.
    Weekender Offender 
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    You seriously think that stands as an argument? :lol: We're not talking about the government handing "everyone a rope [drugs] and told them that rock climbing [drugs] was a good and harmless thing to do". That's a complete straw man, I guess because you know you're losing so you'd like to misrepresent and reframe the entire argument. I thought better of you Kentish. :(
    Let's be clear - the government legalising drugs would give tacit approval for their use. The perception in the public would be the the new clean, legal supply would be government-backed, and would be as safe to take as an aspirin. However many safety leaflets you hand out and education campaigns you run, the perception is what counts. If you increase the number of people using them, you increase the potential for harm, of course.

    So don't give me cheap comments and think you have made the point because you cannot make the assertion that legalising drugs would be better all round and you haven't shown your argument to be true in reality.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kentish wrote:
    Let's be clear - the government legalising drugs would give tacit approval for their use.

    No. That's you assuming that, not based in fact.
    Kentish wrote:
    The perception in the public would be the the new clean, legal supply would be government-backed, and would be as safe to take as an aspirin.

    Again, your assumptions. I don't think most people are as dumb as you seem to think.
    Kentish wrote:
    However many safety leaflets you hand out and education campaigns you run, the perception is what counts.

    So telling the truth about drugs won't alter people's perception? Eh? :confused:
    Kentish wrote:
    If you increase the number of people using them, you increase the potential for harm, of course.

    Although, of course, we have no evidence that the numbers using would increase. Its legal to drink in the morning? Do you? If not, why not?
    Kentish wrote:
    So don't give me cheap comments and think you have made the point because you cannot make the assertion that legalising drugs would be better all round and you haven't shown your argument to be true in reality.

    I could say exactly the same thing for you.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    complete straw man,

    Everybodys favourite phrase makes another entrance!!! :yippe:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kentish wrote:
    Let's be clear - the government legalising drugs would give tacit approval for their use.

    No it wouldn't.

    People take drugs because they want to, or because they are addicted. neither situation is affected by "government tacit approval".

    The only way drug use will go up is through the small number of people who don't use them only because they don't know where to get them.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:



    Although, of course, we have no evidence that the numbers using would increase. Its legal to drink in the morning? Do you? If not, why not?



    I

    And you have no evidence that they would not increase, logic suggests they would.

    Guess what I would describe the second part as

    A straw man!!!

    :hyper:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If I wanted to go and score heroin or crack I could leave my office and get sorted within 5 minutes. I don't want to. I don't see that changing if they were legal. Same with most people I suspect.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Toadborg wrote:
    And you have no evidence that they would not increase, logic suggests they would.

    No it doesn't. See my post above.
    Toadborg wrote:
    Guess what I would describe the second part as

    A straw man!!!

    :hyper:

    You don't actually know what a straw man argument is do you?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    Same old same old
    You've put your argument, I've put mine. If you won't acknowledge the possibility of drugs use increasing through legalisation then there is no argument left to answer.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kentish wrote:
    You've put your argument, I've put mine. If you won't acknowledge the possibility of drugs use increasing through legalisation then there is no argument left to answer.

    I think it may increase, but there is no real way of knowing. But even if it does, so what?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    No it wouldn't.

    People take drugs because they want to, or because they are addicted. neither situation is affected by "government tacit approval".

    The only way drug use will go up is through the small number of people who don't use them only because they don't know where to get them.
    Why do more people take alcohol than cocaine do you think?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kentish wrote:
    Why do more people take alcohol than cocaine do you think?

    Most people have a drink first thing in the morning. Why not? Most people don't buy off the dealers down Coldharbour Lane. Why not?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    I think it may increase, but there is no real way of knowing. But even if it does, so what?
    More users, more potential for harm, and more draining of health resources.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    Most people have a drink first thing in the morning. Why not? Most people don't buy off the dealers down Coldharbour Lane. Why not?
    Alcohol is a social drug, taken at social occasions. Not sure how that's relevant though.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kentish wrote:
    More users, more potential for harm, and more draining of health resources.

    More potential for harm. That's not actual harm. I would argue though, that it would be offset by the reduction in harm by the fact that drugs would be legal, i.e. of known strength and purity, cheaper, not in the hands of gangsters, users not being at risk of arrest etc etc. And thats assuming that there would be an increase - which is debateable.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kentish wrote:
    Alcohol is a social drug, taken at social occasions. Not sure how that's relevant though.

    So is cocaine. My point is that most people could spend all say drinking if they wanted. They don't. Why? Because of the law? Or something else?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Of course it's debatable; it's all hypotheticals. But to pretend that drugs would be harmless if only the supply was "pure" is the very definition of misinformation.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    We've been through this already Matt. 12 pages ago.

    If she doesn't have drugs, they can't do her for anything, can they?

    Drug addicts aren't that easy to spot; no more so than people with alcohol abuse problems.
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    SkiveSkive Posts: 15,286 Skive's The Limit
    It's very easy to smell heroin on someone

    :lol:
    Weekender Offender 
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    SkiveSkive Posts: 15,286 Skive's The Limit
    Heroine

    Heroine is a female hero.

    The word your looking for is heroin.
    Weekender Offender 
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It can be, more through actions that anything else.

    You miss the point that these people are already taking heroin though. Either you can ptotect them and our communities, or you can attempt to hound down all street-level dealers, pouring more and more money down the drain.
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    SkiveSkive Posts: 15,286 Skive's The Limit
    I'd rather there be no illegal drugs in the UK

    We wish a lot of them wern't illegal either.
    Weekender Offender 
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I feel cocaine is a lot like drinking, you don't get "addicted" to it unless you use it all day everyday and your body starts to NEED to have it.

    Substances like heroin and the new crystal meth have very addictive and disturbing properties.

    It's always CHOICE if I want to take coke or not, and if it was ever to be legal in a shop i'd treat it just like buying a few cans of stella at the weekend.

    I'm just trying to say I feel there's a big difference between things like snorting cocaine and injecting heroine.

    I agree with this, if coke was available over the counter, I feel this would become a big problem, think of all the times you are out of gear at 6am and everyone is all keen ringing anyone and everyone for just another half! ha ha if it was accessible in a couple of hours I know loads of people who would gladly wait up to get some more if it was that easy to get! I think drugs should be legalised but only in severe cases, I mean it is only a problem to those that cant afford it and therefore commit crimes in order to get their next hit, those that have the money i.e. celebrities can get it whenever they want…………. and they seem to handle it well………… and when they cant they can just go to the priory (?) for a couple of weeks……….
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kentish wrote:
    Of course it's debatable; it's all hypotheticals. But to pretend that drugs would be harmless if only the supply was "pure" is the very definition of misinformation.

    Except that no one is arguing that are they? If you're going to debate Kentish, please try and be honest.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru

    Substances like heroin and the new crystal meth have very addictive and disturbing properties.

    Point of note: crystal meth is not new.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Heroine is REALLY easy to spot when they've just had a shot though

    Not necessarily.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    guess what ...drugs use IS going up!
    year after year.
    except in countries with a more sensible approach.
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