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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What makes an elite soldier?

    Are there a certain breed, or does it come through training, and discipline?

    It definately takes a special kind of person to become the elite in any organisation. In the military its even more the case. Im sure that if you spoke to US Marines, Royal Marines, US Rangers, Paras, SAS or Delta then you will see something similar within them all. Its a cliche but they are the best of the best.

    To be honest, the differences in special forces across the western world are negligible. The UK troops may get a little more training than the Americans but thats only because theyre so bloody poor that they cant play with all the toys all day.

    All this talk about the US Marines being inept because of all the accidents we hear about is just stupid. The US Marines outnumber our entire army and are a hundred times better equipped. The US Marines are pretty much a self contained army. They probably have more working ships than our Navy these days and more working planes than the RAF.....Of course you will hear of more accidents with the US Marines, simply because theres so damn many of them <IMG SRC="tongue.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">

    Cant really comment on other forces around the world as I know little about them. Iraq thought they had an elite force in the Republican Guard. They were wrong. Funnily enough, I believe it was a US Marine tank unit that scored the highest number of enemy armour kills in the Gulf.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Thanatos jr:
    <STRONG>By Capt Kirk
    "Just look at the SAS, the best soldiers on Earth."</STRONG>

    You mean like Bravo Two Zero? A bunch of wankers wandering about in the desert without the proper kit and not having the sense to even keep everyone together?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I dont know much about elite forces but I once read that the French Foreign Legion had the toughest training in the world hence are the best although I have no idea how you quantify "best"
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by DJP:
    <STRONG>What makes an elite soldier?
    </STRONG>

    I've asked this question of two of my mates. One served in the American Special Forces. The other served in the Royal Marines.


    The Special Forces answer:

    Refusal to quit.
    Internal motivation exceeding the norm.
    The ability to focus regardless of distraction or pain.
    Creativity and intelligence.
    Teamwork and camraderie.

    The Royal Marine answer:

    Toughness.
    Stubborness.
    Looking out for your mate.

    Oh, both stated "Training and more training"....

    [ 13-02-2002: Message edited by: Sean_K ]
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Desert Storm, the US Marine Corps was supposed to go head on against fortified Iraqi lines and hold the Royal Guard while the US Army and Nato forces flanked from the NW. What ended up happening is the USMC drove thru and destroyed the Royal Guard and drove all the way into Kuwait City with the rest of the forces trying to catch up.

    So if you look at the after battle report the US Marine Corps were the ones who liberated Kuwait while everyone else was trying their hardest to play catchup
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What an answer!

    Essentially, that boils down to similar things, doesn't it? The Special Forces/Marines/elites are all of a similar breed.

    But, are these characteristics "inbuilt", or can they be taught?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Thanatos jr:
    <STRONG>Desert Storm, the US Marine Corps was supposed to go head on against fortified Iraqi lines and hold the Royal Guard while the US Army and Nato forces flanked from the NW. What ended up happening is the USMC drove thru and destroyed the Royal Guard and drove all the way into Kuwait City with the rest of the forces trying to catch up.

    So if you look at the after battle report the US Marine Corps were the ones who liberated Kuwait while everyone else was trying their hardest to play catchup</STRONG>


    I'd call that a bit of a twist of history since 7th Corps (with attached 1st UK) destroyed Republican Guards units Tawalkana, Medina, 12th and 17th Armored, portions of the Hammurabi and Adnan. They did that while moving a far longer distance than the Marines by operating primarily in Iraq, not Kuwait. The Marines did a superb job. They did not face Republican Guard units (except in the Battle of Khafji). But so did everyone else, including 1st UK.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Personally I think an army of red ants would kick all of our asses!!!

    I mean that leaf carrying action just kicks ass!!!! Better than your Delta, SAS or whatever else there is <IMG SRC="tongue.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"> <IMG SRC="tongue.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"> <IMG SRC="tongue.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">

    *trying to lighten the debate here with some comedy*

    You may continue with your heavy debate as I am not taking part <IMG SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    OK, so I wasn't entirely acurate. I just summed it up.

    Anyway, about the whole what does it take to be the best. I can speak from personal experiance about the Marines and them only.

    Boot camp is not designed to train you to be the best in the world. What it does is weed out those who can't hack it. Some of the people that we thought were going to graduate as a squad leader ended up not even making it. And there were those that we were sure would get dropped and made it all the way through. It's about bringing those traits that a few select people have naturally and bringing them out in them. After boot camp you go to Combat training. That is where we really learn how to use weapons, train in fighting tactics, develope martial arts, ect. Even our paper pushers get this training. Anyone in the Marine Corps could tomorrow be on a front line and would be effective. Not as effective as regular grunts, but still better skilled than most countries armies. We go through continous training and are always honing our skills. Our Recon teams train with the best of other services and also have there own training.

    In general the US Armed Forces are well equiped but weak. After all most join the Army/Navy/Air Force for the $25,000 GI Bill (school money). That is a major part of it also, why these people join the paticular service. More to come
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by wuckfit:
    Personally I think an army of red ants would kick all of our asses!!!

    OMG that's the Chinese, there're so damned many of them!

    Anyway we are talking about the military and soldiers here, it can hardly be termed good. I mean we're talking about agents of death and destruction, sometimes necessary in my view, but never can it be clased as good.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Is this really anything to do with politics?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Military has everything to do with politics. With out strong military your polititions mean nothing
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    But your just arguing whos the best, that is not a political debate and I think it belongs in Anything goes
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    No, my countries military and the Marine Corps specificly were slammed, I was defending my military
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Thanatos jr:
    <STRONG>No, my countries military and the Marine Corps specificly were slammed, I was defending my military</STRONG>

    Totally agree with you there - its politics when denigrating ones armed forces, therefore aptly suited to this particular board.

    As I don't have any military experience, I cannot accurately comment on who has the best army / armed forces etc. I can however point to history, which suggests we have won a vast majority of the battles and wars we've fought.
    As for the bragging and whining and competing to say who's better - I can quote my father, a retired Marine - "Its hard to be humble when you're so f*&*ing good."
    Im sure your SAS and RAF and Army and Navy all have the same beleifs about their respective branches - its what the military is all about - no matter what flag youre fighting under.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think the Iraqi's know they such though
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Thanatos jr:
    <STRONG>I think the Iraqi's know they such though</STRONG>

    Well yeah considering they basically bent over and took it. All that crap about "another Vietnam" because of the "Elite" *coughs* Republican Guard is, looking back, laughable.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Hey

    Hey i just wanted to say..as a serving memeber of HM armed forces with 5th PATHFINDER platoon of the Parachute regiment that alot of people on this site need to do their research properly. People saying that British forces havent got good kit. The new SA-80 A2 is far better than the M-16..FACT..Challenger 2E main battle tank is far better then the American M1A2 Abrams..FACT..m1a2 is vastly out performed by the British Challe tank..and there seems to be alot of idiots making comments about "SAS i think wre the best but not as well equipped as US spec ops" this is sucha heap of bullshit. They use the C7..the Canadian version of M-16 and M4..except it is vastly superior..instead of "spray n pray" like US forces we actually pick our targets. The SAS and SBS have whats known as a Purple Forces Budgest i.e so long as they justify a need then they are allowed the finances to buy..hence them equipping the ENTIRE unit with the Canadian C-7 now..complete with the new British USGL (Under Slung Grenade Launcher) which by the way has a greater fire distance than the US M-203..they have the H&K MP-5 and H&K G-36..the worlds best assult rifle to date. Next. I have been through the USMC selection course on a cross training exercise a few years back and im sorry..not saying they arent any good..but it was laughably easy. Some guy on here said of the SAS "oh like B20 wandering around in the Desert with shit kit and gettin lost" ok one incident..what about the Delta force unit that got its behind tanned off in Afgfhanistan..or how about the Tehran incident years ago where they got slashed...Trust me theres been more fuck ups from Delta force and US SEAL's than you'll ever see from SAS and SBS..and as for kit they were using British American and Canadian and French kit on the B20 Op...now...its 6 months TOTAL training for a US delta force operator...note that the SAS and SBS spend a far greater amount of time being trained and the slection standards are far tougher. and at least we can carry weight for extended ops behind lines.and thas ALL of our forces not just UK SF...even our og standard Infantry carry anywhere from 55 lbs UPWARDS for days on end...i note USMC havnt got the stamina for it. dont get me wrong im glad to have america on our side and trying to look up to us and be as good...but..they are NOT as good..simple..
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Old thread Pathfinder.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I feel kinda sorry for Pathfinder. Making such a huge reply, and it not actually being relevant anymore.
  • Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Stalin's Organist Posts: 13,327
    I feel kinda sorry for Pathfinder. Making such a huge reply, and it not actually being relevant anymore.

    Yup. What a shame... Poor chappy. People should check thread dates after googling. So much for Military Intelligence :p
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