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Help me with this one!
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
By Capt Kirk
"And by the way, US Marines are shit. You'll notice that the European troops are always used for the majority of land-manuvers and are considered to be better trained and more experienced. You just have shiny planes (that get shot down).
Just look at the SAS, the best soldiers on Earth."
Show me when the US Marines have ever failed where anyone in Europe had triumph. Show me where we needed you. Show me anything to back this ignorant statement up.
What land manuvers?
BTW, the Air Force has shinny planes, ours just work.
"And by the way, US Marines are shit. You'll notice that the European troops are always used for the majority of land-manuvers and are considered to be better trained and more experienced. You just have shiny planes (that get shot down).
Just look at the SAS, the best soldiers on Earth."
Show me when the US Marines have ever failed where anyone in Europe had triumph. Show me where we needed you. Show me anything to back this ignorant statement up.
What land manuvers?
BTW, the Air Force has shinny planes, ours just work.
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This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Everytime they try to fly a helicopter during "training" they seem to crash it.
My only critiscm of the US forces is the fact they have too many friendly fire incidents.
Maybe Capt Kirk would like to try USMC boot camp, lets see if he could hack it.
Thantos jr which topic did he post that statement ?
[ 12-02-2002: Message edited by: WillyPete ]
The other point being, of course, that the special/elite forces are so cross trained that they might as well have married each other's sisters. The SAS/LRDG were first. Probably still number one.
Final point being - we don't have to worry, because we are on the same team. Evryone who is against us has a major headache - the UK/US combination is actually a pretty good one, and they tend to combine and utilise forces between them very effectively. Look at the results in combat.
[Edited because I can't type]
[ 12-02-2002: Message edited by: DJP ]
It was a closed thread, I belive it was the last thread I started.
I'm not trying to say who is the best, I was just wondering if anyone could backup Whowhere's commint. And you are trying to take a tragedy like the helo that went down in Afgan, and turn it into a slam against us. Maybe you would like it if every time someone from NI blew something up I made fun of your police force
I haven't said anything until the helicopter thing. And I wasn't referring to the Afghan incident, I was referring to the incident in the Balkans when 2 Apaches with their amazing guidance equipment just happened to collide in mid-air.
Although, as for Afhganistan, it would have looked much better on your training and skill if the government said that the Afghans shot it down. It doesn't give the world much confidence when you guys can't fly a helicopter during training without having an accident.
As for the IRA, sure you could blame the police, I don't really care. At least we havn't tried to "hit a mouse with a hammer" ad bomb them into submission. All your bombing campaign has done is to spread and disperse the Al-Qaeda network making them harder to track down, until one of them decides to contaminate the New York water supply.
For beginners...'they' did US a huge favor...it is forcing US to get our imigration policies in order...curently INS is rounding up over 320k illegals from middle Eastern countries who overstayed their visas, questioning them and deporting them back to the country of origin...while this will be hard on our 7/11 stores it must be done (that was a joke btw).
We, US, have grown dependent upon 'illegals' from Mexico to do what amounts to slave labor jobs here...that will come under control, prices will go up slightly, and a program will be installed...actually reinstituted...which leaves the worker with their own homeland, self respect and some US$$$ to take home.
islam has been rightly compared to the 'bolshevicks' by someone...ideologically in the pre middle ages...folowing a doctrine that is as bad or worse than the worst christer missionary intrusions...there is no room in their doctrine for modernization or revision...just bow to Mecca five times a day, etc., and learn to read only one book, bla, bla, bla.
Isolation and containment within their own borders for the next 5c years ought to do it...then we might let them out to play again, maybe! It is that or the more harsher approach that I have previously suggested that they are forcing the West to follow...leting israel nuke them and destroy the heart of their very being...too harsh a discussion for most young ears but inevitable nonetheless.
Good morning cousins...well, it's morning here...are any of you following the Winter Olympics? How about those snowboarders, eh?
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Hmm well bombing Afghanistan would be about as productive as tits on a bull but Iraq, now theres a "target rich environment" full of scum.
The US removal, surgical bombing with daisy cutters, etc., was one of the kindest acts of modern warfare imaginable. I favored nukeing them immediately after the WTC hits...still consider it a reasonable response...US chose to do it differently and thus far I have no complaints. Look at the prisoners at Gitmo, we're killing them with kindness and they sing like birds...jail birds in a wire cage!
BTW, I personally consider the SAS to be top of the line...but don't care much for their main battle rifle or lack of technical toys...but they are tough, right up there with Legion E'stangere! You simply need more of them...and an incentive for young men in the ol pirate kingdom to want for military careers.
Anyone paying attention the the airfield at Kandahar? Notice the landing lights? Right! There aren't any...everything is done in the dark...technology!
Technology is the name on the room of life in which we all live...the doors are closing and only those in the room will survive as anything more than 'serfs' on the land! Get in/get out! It is all up to EU/UK and US!
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Hardly prejudiced - If they are intent on erasing my nation - I reserve the right to hate them.
Yes - Iraq is a nation filled with scum - you can tell me all you want that its Hussein - but the fact is theyr people are weak and unwilling to overthrow the bastard.
Not suggesting the Afghani people are scum, but their leadership sucks, are scum and deserve death.
Now do you get it?
Edited hatred remarks.
[ 12-02-2002: Message edited by: Squinty ]
OK if you didn't like your govt but they had control of all the instruments of state including the armed forces, would you rebel knowing that you faced torture and death?
Devilman, change your name to Devilboy
Edited petty insult.
[ 12-02-2002: Message edited by: Squinty ]
Some will be offended by the following quoted post. It is presented here to express what is in fact a changing attitude and for information only...it expresses neither my opinion or lack there of one, rather take it as a warning of changing times.
"Randians for Mass Murder
by Milton Batiste
David Kelley is the executive director of The Objectivist Center, celebrated in some libertarian circles as a forum for moderate randianism. This is what Kelley has to say about the response to the acts of terror on September 11:
"Negotiation is an exercise of reason that civilized people use to resolve their differences. We are not dealing with civilized people. We must cease the policy of excusing their violence by their poverty and trying to buy them off with subsidies. We are not dealing with people who seek such gain. We must declare war on the terrorists and use whatever force it takes to render them incapable of posing any further threat."
Kelley is advocating war with "whatever force it takes" against enemies who are less than human (not "civilized people"). This is the voice of the reasonable Objectivist faction. What about the unreasonable faction?
Leonard Peikoff – the "intellectual heir" of Ayn Rand – is the founder of The Ayn Rand Institute, the fountainhead of orthodox Objectivism. His reaction is – unsurprisingly – similiar to Kelley’s, but even more indiscriminate. Americas enemies, it seems, are Arabs in general:
"The Arabs embodied in extreme form every idea-selfless duty, anti-materialism, faith or feeling above science, the supremacy of the group-which our universities and churches, and our own political Establishment, had long been preaching as the essence of virtue."
And what are Americans to do about the blatantly religious Arab altruists? Simple. Kill’em all – inflict "mass death" upon the citizens of Towelhead Nations:
"To those who oppose war, I ask: If not now, when? How many more corpses are necessary before this country should take action? The choice today is mass death in the United States or mass death in the terrorist nations."
Many libertarians are attracted to the remnants of Aristotelian philosophy within Objectivism. Those elements are conspicuously absent in the Objectivist proposals provoked by terrorism. The enemy is a faceless, barely human, collective entity. No references are made to the Just War doctrine.
They say that war brings out the best and the worst in people. That goes for Objectivists too, and it is not a pleasant revelation for libertarians.
September 19, 2001
Milton Batiste (send him mail) is a libertarian writer in Uppsala, Sweden.
Copyright © 2001 LewRockwell.com"
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AS I have no respect for people who don't respect logic, I find it incumbent upon myself to lose any respect I may have had for you.
If you had any intelligence in that mass you refer to as a brain, You would realize I was talking about the Taliban.
Don't try and cap insults with me son, I'm too fast.
Edited petty insults.
[ 12-02-2002: Message edited by: Squinty ]
Good point. Let's not digress from the main issues which are NOT the petty insults that are flying around. <IMG SRC="rolleyes.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
i.e. All that achieves is closed threads. <IMG SRC="mad.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
[ 12-02-2002: Message edited by: Squinty ]
Perhaps being an American who loves his freedom and has a lot of self respect enables me to answer as suck but If I were an Iraqi - Id rebel - Id organize Id assassinate Id kill - ANYThing to overthrow a sick and corrupt regime as Iraq truly is.
We won freedom in the US in a similar fashion - by fighting back and more importantly - not giving up.
It may sound like its easier said than done but Id rather have my freedom - or die trying to attain it.
And the sad truth is that your idea of "freedom" (quite possibly mine, too) is in almost direct opposition to the (hardline) Muslim idea of "freedom" -- to the extremist Muslim freedom lies in submission to the Will of Allah. Hence, "freedom" for him is slavery to the mullah.
(N.B.: Substitute any religion / deity / priest triple in the above and you begin to see why I am so strongly anti-religious.)
[ 12-02-2002: Message edited by: MacKenZie ]
Sadly, then, short of eliminating all Muslims, there is no solution other than to stay the course and ready for future attacks, which truly sucks.
Indeed that is "extremist" Islam - while theyre all about submitting to Allah, the Koran isn't an especially violent reading - which pisses me off because the scum are essentially perverting the religion to fit their "ideaology."
All land manuvers!
How many comments does it take to upset the American? Keep your knickers on Thanatos!
My comments were only to highlight that in the past (including recent activities) the British and European forces were used primarily for the completion for the majority of difficult objectives. These forces did work in conjunction with the American forces, I didn't see anybody turning down the support Europe provided. The French and British soldiers are trained longer and harder than your bog-standard American troop, resulting in a better soldier. This was taken advantage of in Afghanistan.
You didn't really need our support, but thats only because you harbour a devastating arsenal of hardware. If in doubt, carpet bomb... it's the American way. It is my opinion that the best ground-forces and soldiers in the world are European.
Your patriotic comments are cute, go raise the star spangled banner. But what I am saying is the opinion of all of the worlds military... including your own. I swear that as the action in Afghanistan was heating up, some supposed expert said the exact same thing. American troops just aren't as good on the ground.
51st state my ass. It's just better to be supporting a super-power than standing in the side-lines (like Norway attempted, weakening trade immediatley with cry-baby America) because Bush would probaby cry if his best mate, Tony, didn't back him up.
As for the planes? Gulf war pilots were dropping out of the sky like rain! Helicopters too... I've seen that arrogant wank Black Hawk Down.
*Salutes the heroes*
Now what do you have to say about that?
I heard that too. I don't like it, but I have to agree with Kirk on this one. European troops do recieve longer training before they are thrown into battle and are thus probably better combatants in general. However, why argue about it? There shouldn't be a conflict here anyway as we're all on the same side, standing together against terrorism.
Based upon your training with the forces of serveral nations?
Based upon your experiences in combat?
Based upon your selective injestion of propaganda?
Wank on...
SAS ARE quality forces, but are NOT as well equiped, nor as large a force as US Special Forces. Brit army in general? Not as motivated or disciplined as the US Air FARCE... (as a ground force).
The French? Yes, special forces are legitimate. In general? ROTFLMFAO!!!
Please, at least make the attempt of other than COMPLETE delusion within your posts...
Comparing the special forces of ANY nation with armed forces in general is not going to give an accurate picture. Demeaning the US combat forces... ready to stand on the other side and test out you hypothesis? <IMG SRC="wink.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
As a very intelligent man pointed out after September 11th, evil is not a foreign face, evil is the thought behind the face, and it can look just like yours.
It is possible to fight ideas, just not with bombs and guns alone. That is why I said from the start that military victory in Afghanistan would have to be followed by education -- reason being the ultimate weapon against faith and extremism.
No doubts there, Mac. Education and some kind of aid to the Afghanis is in order. The problem lies in whats next? We ve already eliminated the Afghanistan threat and it appears the problem has migrated - I knew this was going to be a drawn out campaign - I just don't see an end in sight.
It is the thoughts behind the face - its no one religion/ political party / ideology - unfortunately though, war and militarism are our best defense against a determined, however sick foe.
This is the conclusion that I am drawing from the posts on this thread.
Anyone with something new to add? <IMG SRC="confused.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
Your constant rambling posts about how everyone who messes with the US of A are gonna pay with a swift kicking are a good example of that.
The US Marines are a force of highly trained, well equipped professional soldiers. Their parity with our own Marines cannot be decided, and is irrelevent anyway.
Let's cut the crap. I don't see the point of this post, other than to provoke arguments, so let's add a constructive comment or two to this?
Let's try and get some opinions on this question, and trya nd give a point to this thread;
What makes an elite soldier?
Are there a certain breed, or does it come through training, and discipline?
Your answers please, and no sarcastic comments and insults. Let's act like men, as opposed to little children. I am especially interested to hear from the Thanatoses, Balddog et al. Does the elite soldier differ across countries? Or do we all think that they're essentially the same breed of cat...