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Finally- the Kyoto Agreement comes into force today

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Renzo wrote:
    Some geographers and scientists do indeed argue that the climate change that is occuring now is indeed just a natural phenomenon. The climate has quite heavily fluctuated since the last ice age.

    You cynic you.

    Swot! :mad:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Dear Wendy wrote:
    Swot! :mad:

    Quit using that word just because I taught it to you. :grump:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Renzo wrote:
    Quit using that word just because I taught it to you. :grump:

    You're not going to tell me what to do :mad:

    But being that I am in the best mood EVER EVER EVER today then I will be nice and call you a communeet.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Renzo wrote:
    Some geographers and scientists do indeed argue that the climate change that is occuring now is indeed just a natural phenomenon. The climate has quite heavily fluctuated since the last ice age.

    You cynic you.

    Yes, and those three or so scientists are retarded.

    Every political program I've ever watched on the subject of global warming tries to show balance, by which I mean they pick one of the hundreds of thousands of climate specialists to speak for it and one of about 10, funded by the oil companies or with research interests in emu sex behaviours to speak against it. Their opinions don't have the same value nor the same scope.

    Global warming is happening. It shouldn't matter whether or not it could be a natural phenomenon (which it fairly conclusively isn't anyway - we should be experiencing a period of cooling if you model just natural driving forces as they did at the MET office). Humans have evolved and existed in a period of relatively stable climate very much like todays. We don't want it to be getting hotter, it's bad for us and our success as a species.

    Human activities are almost certainly responsible for the rapid rate of climate change we're experiencing, sure enough it's been warmer before, it's been colder before, but we have no record of such a rapid rate of change in any of the records from the last 500,000+ years. We've seen a 2 degree temperature rise in the last 100 years. It took over 100,000 years for the 2 degree rise before that.

    Rapid change is not a good thing, it gives us no time to adapt. It's time to take global warming seriously, it needs to be a unanimous effort to slow it.


    Says the student of one of the world's leading climate scientists.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    um yeah it might be a natural event...but seeing as how the average climate has changed by an average of about 1 degree Fahrenheit since the industrial revolution that seems unlikely.

    I also seem to recall hearing somewhere that the difference between the average climate of the earth currently and the average climate of the earth during the last ice age was about 3 degrees Fahrenheit.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The immense majority of those scientists who claim global warming doesn't exist or that it is not caused by man-made CO2 emissions happen to be on the payroll of Exxon, Texaco et all, or be part of neo-con/free market right wing think tanks.

    This debate reminds me of the very early days of debate concerning smoking. There were a few doctors out there who claimed smoking was beneficial for you, and indeed that the more you smoked the healthier you'd be. I have seen a book first published in the 1920s saying just that. We all know the truth now (as indeed they did then...).
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    um yeah it might be a natural event...but seeing as how the average climate has changed by an average of about 1 degree Fahrenheit since the industrial revolution that seems unlikely.

    Unlikely? Or just that we don't have enough information to actually make an assumptions. "Since the Industrial Revolution" in a miniscule timeframe to be using when the Earth has been here for so many millennia.

    And there is the problem.

    Given the global warming will ultimately lead to an Ice Age, one has to question what caused the last one. Was it man, or was it natural. Could it be that we are witnessing part of a natural cycle.

    Problem for science is that it cannot answer that question.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Unlikely? Or just that we don't have enough information to actually make an assumptions. "Since the Industrial Revolution" in a miniscule timeframe to be using when the Earth has been here for so many millennia.

    And there is the problem.

    Given the global warming will ultimately lead to an Ice Age, one has to question what caused the last one. Was it man, or was it natural. Could it be that we are witnessing part of a natural cycle.

    Problem for science is that it cannot answer that question.

    Climate models carried out by the MET Office Hadley centre show that if you exclude anthropogenic (man made) carbon emissions then we'd have experienced a gradual period of cooling since 1970. We haven't.

    The problem's not that you can't discount natural cycles, it's that some people are too stubborn to listen.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    The immense majority of those scientists who claim global warming doesn't exist or that it is not caused by man-made CO2 emissions happen to be on the payroll of Exxon, Texaco et all, or be part of neo-con/free market right wing think tanks.

    This debate reminds me of the very early days of debate concerning smoking. There were a few doctors out there who claimed smoking was beneficial for you, and indeed that the more you smoked the healthier you'd be. I have seen a book first published in the 1920s saying just that. We all know the truth now (as indeed they did then...).

    The man who actually proposed the idea I am talking about (I like the fact that I don't know what it's about really) is a Dane, and so are the other 2 people leading in this theory. It doesn't mean that they don't have backing, but it is interest to note that the guy was actually involved in studies of something else, when he heard of this and made the connection.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    In the end scientists are divided. Most scientist believe that climate change is at least partially effected by man (and cow), a minority point out flaws in the in the mainstream theories.

    We can do two things:

    1) Make changes to the way we live. Even if we have no impact on climate change we've still reduced our reliance on fossil fuels (which will run out eventually) and cut the energy bills of business and indivduals

    2) Carry on the way we are. Which means that if we do happen to have an impact on climate change and do nothing to stop it people living in Norfolk should get used to boating to work.

    So it might be better to make changes, better to be safe than sorry.
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