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Oil

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
yes we know how useful it all is, and how badlymanaged its usage is, even though its a precious resource


as we all know too the price is stupidly high


its cause usa is increasing its usage constantly and with china now doing the same, we cant pump enough out of the ground, surely its a sign we use too much


if another big player on the scene emerged like india or somewhere, then itd just be stupid, we need to look after it


not just for petrol but cause almost every chemical we use comes from it, i know i do chemistry and most of stuff we buy in comes initially from refinerys
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Tax and duty on petrol is not high enough. This is true of this country (despite many people's protestations) and specially true of the rest of the world.

    Frankly my main concern is global warming. It's getting worse, not better. We're heading for an environmental disaster of incalculable cost. We MUST curb petrol use by all means necessary.

    I don't care much for the economics of it, and in fact if very high prices have the result of slowing down oil use, then I welcome the development global recession and all.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    the thing it isnt restircting use, its being used in manufacturing in usa and china, the only reason price is going up is cause demand is stupidly high as china has emerged as a new global power, and is using the same method the usa took to get where it is
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm not sure that I would welcome the advent of economic meltdown. You think things are bad in Iraq? You ain't seen nothing...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Oil isn't as necessary as it seems. Industry has been centered on oil deliberately because there's a small market which can easily be exploited giving some people lots of money. When oil runs out the world won't crunch to a grinding halt as many have prophesized, the next monopoly giants (wouldn't be surprised if they're the same ones) will emerge from their shells with the next resource!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Not necessary a meltdown, but higher prices are a small price to pay (no pun intended) if it reduces consumption.

    Yesterday petrol prices reached a 21-year high in the US. Good. There has been a marked decrease in the sale of gas-guzzling monsters in the last few months there. That can only be good news.

    By contrast sales of Chelsea tractors are booming over here. More evidence that petrol prices are not as high and dear as the motoring lobby would have us believe then, if so many people are prepared to buy the big, ugly, inefficient monsters. Perhaps the 'double tax/congestion charge for 4 x 4s' Ken Livingstone was advocating recently is the way forward.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Unfortunately its not as simple as that due to structural demand. The simple fact is that structure energy production (not to mention such other necessities as fertilisers , which require natural gas to produce) cannot simply switch over and provide an unbroken output that you seem to anticipate.

    The requirements for maintaining our current (and exponentially increasing) energy demands should have been started on 30 years ago. Given that there is still no viable alternative mass energy infrastructure development in concrete physical terms even today means that when the oil runs out, there will indeed a grinding halt and much disruption to the lives we take for granted in our industrialised cultures for a substantial period before kilowatt output could even come close to current levels. Even the windfarms built in the UK to date (for example) could not do more than power a few surrounding communities without the oil-dependent backbone to take up the lion's share of demand.

    No oil, no plastics, no fertilisers, no assembly lines, etc.. its all integrated and far more necessary to even the production of basic consumables than you seem to appreciate.

    On the upside, no oil, the end of imperialistic rapidly deployed expeditionary forces to foreign lands and ultimately the decline of the MIC. Hell i'll gladly live a tent for the remainder of my days if that came to pass!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    we need oil for all the chemicals we use, so im happy for oil companies to exist, just we need other forms of transport and enrgy generation, perhaps if we used all sorts of forms of renewable we could do it, or maybe even nuclear fusion, and for the stable minumum use conventional oil gas and nuclear as backups
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by TheShyBoyInTheCorner
    When oil runs out the world won't crunch to a grinding halt as many have prophesized, the next monopoly giants (wouldn't be surprised if they're the same ones) will emerge from their shells with the next resource!
    what next resource is that then?
    bio diesel? hemp being the ultimate plant.
    there isn't enough land to grow even hemp which can be grown almost anywhere and everywhere to replace the ammount of oil used at the moment....and produce food crops.
    and some people think we should go vegetarian!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    how bout doin it so we dont run out of oil indefinetly then and just actually become efficient users and back it up with biofuel and renewable sources etc so itll last ages until we develop a truly long lasting source like nuclear fusion
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    nowt to worry about realy ...give it another 50 years and we'll be living in shelters and foraging.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    One reason why i personally am glad I have no children. I dont see much of a world worth living in within the next 50 years or so and will be glad I didnt leave any children to what will come when my number is up.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Clandestine
    One reason why i personally am glad I have no children. I dont see much of a world worth living in within the next 50 years or so and will be glad I didnt leave any children to what will come when my number is up.
    i do have kids and even grandchildren ...they are all learning about living a different way ...
    no i'm not depressed about the way i see the world going.
    i like to think i'm being realistic. there is no way it can just keep on going like this and as for our technology saving us ...works great in films and comics ...but in reality i see that very technology being the death of us.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by morrocan roll
    i do have kids and even grandchildren ...they are all learning about living a different way ...
    no i'm not depressed about the way i see the world going.


    Actually it's only when I see the sharpness of my 5-year old cousin that I realise that the future kids have a chance of getting us out of all the mess.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Jacqueline the Ripper
    Actually it's only when I see the sharpness of my 5-year old cousin that I realise that the future kids have a chance of getting us out of all the mess.
    theres going to be a few billion of them ...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by J
    That's probably what our grandparents thought...

    They did, and so did our parents.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Jacqueline the Ripper
    They did, and so did our parents.
    and it all went downhill from there realy ...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by morrocan roll
    and it all went downhill from there realy ...

    I really don't think so.
    I have a liberty and opportunities which my parents didn't have, let alone my grandparents.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Jacqueline the Ripper
    I really don't think so.
    I have a liberty and opportunities which my parents didn't have, let alone my grandparents.
    but at a price ... a cost we cannot sustain ...the damage one tenth of the worlds population ...the tenth that have the liberty and opportunities ...are doing to this world is quite scary ...handy if we never realy look at that though.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Not to mention the fact Jacq, that all the cleverness in the world wont stand the next generation any good at changing the status quo as the money and power steadily concentrates itself into fewer and fewer elitest hands. Clever people of each successive generation have been and are being disenfranchised in ever increasing numbers as opportunity dries up and misinformation ensures the majority are duly spun into waiting for some lasting upturn that wont benefit them even if it should come.

    One of the reasons why the PNAC agenda is intent on a perpetual war cloaked as a battle against terrorism in order to ensure ultimate control of the remaining dwindling oil and gas reserves rests in US and US-client state hands, but even that will come to an end in due course.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Clandestine
    Not to mention the fact Jacq, that all the cleverness in the world wont stand the next generation any good at changing the status quo as the money and power steadily concentrates itself into fewer and fewer elitest hands.

    Actually that's the thing. Today you don't need a line of forefathers who had a certain name in order to get hold of money and power, today many more people are working their way up than earlier.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Jacqueline the Ripper
    Actually that's the thing. Today you don't need a line of forefathers who had a certain name in order to get hold of money and power, today many more people are working their way up than earlier.
    and more and more people are going hungry ...more and more third world farmers are loosing their livlihoods to 'free trade'. more and more people are loosing their land. poverty is accelerating the world over ...but i'm in the comfortable one tenth.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Actually no jacq, sorry to burst your naive bubble, but opportunity is dwindling faster and faster even for those with top notch degrees and will do so at a faster pace when the time for payback for the mountainous deficit spending debt of the West truly kicks in.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I can just say that in my grandmothers time then they had the prominent families, and the rest. The ones who could make it big, without having a certain family-line, were the ones who went to the states.
    Today, I know two 16 year olds who started a jewellery line for fun and whom have had their stuff shown in several magazines, including Eurowoman.

    Me, personally?
    When I finnish high-school next year I could go to university, travel or work.
    Just my parents generation, the choice was only work or studies if the family had means for that.

    My opportunities are indeed greater than my parents. And I'd like to see you proving otherwise.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Thanks to your parents so far they have been, but when you are on your own to fend for yourself talk to me about opportunity then. This upcoming generation is going to find much less awaiting them in the real world than they bargained for.

    Good luck to your friends though, success at present doesn't guarantee longevity of success especially when that economic payback I warned of comes to fruition.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Again, not true.

    With globalization you find yourself gaining more information about your possibilities, and being able to expand your limits.
    I know more languages than my parents did at this point in their life (then again, when I reach their age I doubt I'll have the patience to know as many languages as they do now), which also opens a lot of doors.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    And your language skills just might spare you, but you do not represent your entire generation and if you should indeed be one of the few fortunate enough to make it, look around and see how many countless others of your peers do not, regardless of credentials simply because they expected opportunities have long since ceased to exist or been shipped off to more easily exploitable markets.

    Good luck to you, and remember you were warned.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Jacqueline the Ripper
    which also opens a lot of doors.
    but the doors are starting to close ...you don't see that?
    there are holes being burnt in the sky ...the polar ice caps are melting ...the oceans are dying and rapidly ...there is a world water shortage ...there is a world energy crisis ...the gulf stream is being pushed back ...aids is on the march ...a lunatic sits as king of the world ...and it's all just going to be fine and dandy?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Actually, it all depends on what youy definition of "making it" is.
    If you're planning to be a factory worker, then yes, you shouldn't count on as big a market here as in the far east.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by morrocan roll
    but the doors are starting to close ...you don't see that?
    there are holes being burnt in the sky ...the polar ice caps are melting ...the oceans are dying and rapidly ...there is a world water shortage ...there is a world energy crisis ...the gulf stream is being pushed back ...aids is on the march ...a lunatic sits as king of the world ...and it's all just going to be fine and dandy?
    oh yeah ...and china and most of the rest of asia want to all start driving bmw's and building highways to hell and ...let me out of here!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Naivete is wonderful when young, but soon enough the reality of the world will steal away such precious illusions.
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