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Appauled at this NHS Hospital

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    So, did you feel comfortable looking at your man's face when you two gave birth?

    TBH I expected this sort of reply from women, I guess only a man who has been there could really understand the emotional torment that we are going through at that moment. Apparently I was green, and believe me I have never felt so stressed. Imagaine watching the person you love most in the world suffering, in front of you and you not being able to do a damn thing about it. Remember that we are talking life and death here...

    I agree that the pushing, pain etc is the sole domain of the women. I wouldn't denegrate that and I agree that making sure that the woman is confortable is of prime importance.

    However, there is nothing done to prepare tha father for what is coming, nor is there any support for them when they are there. When you consider that it is now the "norm" for the father to be present at the birth, don't you think that their needs should be taken into consideration as well?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I agree with MoK. It must be very very emotional for the man too. Sure, they aren't in any physical pain but I've learn recently that emotional anguish can sometimes be worse than physical pain. The mother has something to do, something to focus on etc whereas poor dad is just standing there, probably feeling like a spare part worrying about what is going on. So yes, I do think men have it hard too.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    My hubby actually went out for the actual birth, he stayed till almost delivery and then he went out. I dont know why he did that because he aint squeamish like me.

    My hubby was a great help during labour, he told me when a pain was coming so I started with the gas and air soon as he told me. I think labour and childbirth are very traumatic for anyone. We all hear about how painful childbirth is and women are obviously very scared. You dont know how long labour will be, you dont know wether the pain is going to get worse so yeah it can be a bit traumatic for everyone and as you say for the hubby it must be horrible to see a loved one going through so much pain but he needs to be there to support his partner, even if he leaves just before delivery like my hubby.
    I dont think anything can prepare a father for delivery because you just never know what its going to be like. Having said that women are not really prepared for the birth neither, all you know is that you are going to deliver a baby and you have no idea how bad it will be till the delivery is here. I know my legs were physically shaking before delivery and i was told it was normal but you know what I have forgot the pain, infact it went straight away. Soon as she was here i was very emotional and kept repeating 'its a girl', I was just amazed and still a bit high from the gas and air and he was like 'Im a Daddy' :D
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Out of interest, for the first, I also threw up and then cried on my Mum's shoulder when he was born.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Man Of Kent
    So, did you feel comfortable looking at your man's face when you two gave birth?

    TBH I expected this sort of reply from women, I guess only a man who has been there could really understand the emotional torment that we are going through at that moment. Apparently I was green, and believe me I have never felt so stressed. Imagaine watching the person you love most in the world suffering, in front of you and you not being able to do a damn thing about it. Remember that we are talking life and death here...

    I agree that the pushing, pain etc is the sole domain of the women. I wouldn't denegrate that and I agree that making sure that the woman is confortable is of prime importance.

    However, there is nothing done to prepare tha father for what is coming, nor is there any support for them when they are there. When you consider that it is now the "norm" for the father to be present at the birth, don't you think that their needs should be taken into consideration as well?

    Not sure if that was ained at me or Beckboo but the point you are trying to make i totally agree with, with me ending up with an emergency c-section especially he was really trumatised aswell. More so even.
    I do think the man should have a say they should discuss it yes.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Tweety
    I do think the man should have a say they should discuss it yes.

    what if he said to you that he didnt want you having pain releif ? who would have the last word ?

    I agree talk and discuss things but lets be honest about this the woman will always have the last word...........In my opinion.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by BeckyBoo
    what if he said to you that he didnt want you having pain releif ? who would have the last word ?

    I agree talk and discuss things but lets be honest about this the woman will always have the last word...........In my opinion.

    I would tell him to bugger off. I didnt mean so what he said goes no, i just mean talk it through but at the end of the day the woman is gonna have the last word.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Tweety
    I would tell him to bugger off.

    But during labour I think you'd use stronger words.............you reckon :lol:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by BeckyBoo
    But during labour I think you'd use stronger words.............you reckon :lol:

    Heh yes i think i would, if i have another it will be planned c-section but its a shame as the first time i manage to puke all over him from too much gas & air lol.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by BeckyBoo
    what if he said to you that he didnt want you having pain releif ? who would have the last word ?

    Hell no, he shouldn't have a say in that aspect. Unless the pain control would affect the life of the child. In that case his opinion should be sought.

    Besides, I don't think that most men would disagree with their partner - or dare to.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Tweety
    Not sure if that was ained at me or Beckboo

    The question about your comfort at look at his face was, because I know that you are both parents.
    but the point you are trying to make i totally agree with, with me ending up with an emergency c-section especially he was really trumatised aswell. More so even.

    Yes, I would have said "more so" as well. In this situation he wouldn't have known where he was. He now has two people to be worried about, who both need him - so who should he be with. His wife, or his new born?

    Tough choice.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Man Of Kent
    The question about your comfort at look at his face was, because I know that you are both parents.

    I'm not quite sure what you were getting at there.


    Yes, I would have said "more so" as well. In this situation he wouldn't have known where he was. He now has two people to be worried about, who both need him - so who should he be with. His wife, or his new born?

    Tough choice.

    Honestly when they brought James out to him, he said all he could think about was if i was ok. Be it right or wrong.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Tweety
    I'm not quite sure what you were getting at there.

    Sorry, when you looked a Chris face during the birth, did you find it a comfort, or was it a mask of horror.

    My wife has said that it actually worried her (I guess green just isn't my shade!) and she was concerned about me.

    I feel a little guilty about that, I mean the last thing she needed right then was to worry about me...



    Honestly when they brought James out to him, he said all he could think about was if i was ok. Be it right or wrong.

    Did James need to go to SCBU?

    My brother was faced with this dilemna a few years ago. His wife had emergency c-section and his daughter was then rushed to SCBU. He wasn't sure whether he should be in recovery for his wife, or in SCBU with his daughter.

    He went to SCBU first, because his wife was still out cold, made sure his daughter was cared for and then went back to his wife...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Man Of Kent
    Sorry, when you looked a Chris face during the birth, did you find it a comfort, or was it a mask of horror.

    My wife has said that it actually worried her (I guess green just isn't my shade!) and she was concerned about me.

    I feel a little guilty about that, I mean the last thing she needed right then was to worry about me...

    To be honest, when i first went into labour i was face down on the bed more or less straight away as its the only way it hurt slightly less. so i never saw him lol.
    When they took me up to the delivery suite/labour ward i was in so much pain i dont remeber looking at him. The the gas & air & i was away with the faires lol. I dont remember looking at him much except when i felt sick & just managed to say sick & it was too late :o .
    The only time i rememer seeing his face was in theatre before he got kicked out & he was obviously worried sick, as was i. It was horrible.


    Did James need to go to SCBU?

    My brother was faced with this dilemna a few years ago. His wife had emergency c-section and his daughter was then rushed to SCBU. He wasn't sure whether he should be in recovery for his wife, or in SCBU with his daughter.

    He went to SCBU first, because his wife was still out cold, made sure his daughter was cared for and then went back to his wife...

    No we were lucky in that respect after a few minutes of air he was fine. So they wheeled him out.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Man Of Kent

    My personal opinion is that we should damn the feelings of the mother and look at what is in the best interests of the child.

    BTW No-one has mentioned the father in these discussions, no-one has mentioned that he might fell more comfortable with a hospital birth - even though his partner may not. Why do we always forget the father when it comes to child birth?
    yeah forget the mother - selfish bitch concentrate on the two IMPORTANT people, the father and the child. :rolleyes: I never took you for a mysoginistic bastard MOK.
    Statistically home birth is just as safe as a hospital birth and since its the woman whos giving birth, then if she feels more comfortable staying at home, then thats her right, and long may it continue. the vast majority of home births go without a hitch, and if any problems arise, then its easy enough to get to the hospital - as long as an ambulance is actually called. Thats what this discussion is about, the fact that the midwife led unit didnt even call a bloody ambulance, not because midwife led units are inherently unsafe.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by rainbow brite
    yeah forget the mother - selfish bitch concentrate on the two IMPORTANT people, the father and the child. :rolleyes: I never took you for a mysoginistic bastard MOK.

    Did I say that?

    I thought I said that the life of the child was more important than the feeling of the mother. If you believe that a woman's preference is more important that someone's life then I would argue that you have your priorities wrong.
    Statistically home birth is just as safe as a hospital birth and since its the woman whos giving birth, then if she feels more comfortable staying at home, then thats her right, and long may it continue.

    Not sure about the statistics but will take your word for it. Would be interested to know if these birth include those people considered "at risk". If not then I would argue that it is less safe because the hospital birth figures would include difficult births as well as those who were "always" going to run smoothly...

    Again, why should the right of the mother automatically outweight the rights of the child?

    NB I haven't said that the father should decide where the birth takes place. I do believe that his opinion should be soght, as should medical opinion. If the mother goes against both of these then I would argue that she is being irresponsible.
    the vast majority of home births go without a hitch, and if any problems arise, then its easy enough to get to the hospital - as long as an ambulance is actually called. Thats what this discussion is about, the fact that the midwife led unit didnt even call a bloody ambulance, not because midwife led units are inherently unsafe.

    The discussion evolved, and I commented on the ambulance situation however it's worth noting that had this birth taken place in the consultant-led service then an ambulance wouldn't have been needed in the first instance. Thus the arguement about whether or not the ambulance was called would be redundant.

    How long does it take to get an ambulance from the station, to the house and then from the house to the hospital? 10 minues? 20 minutes? The optimum time for an emergency c-section is 10 minutes after the decision has been made, 20 minutes is considered "unsafe" any more is consdered negligent. According to case-law.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I dont believe a womans feelings are more important than a childs life, but then I dont believe that a home birth or midwife unit birth is risking the childs life any more than a hospital birth in the vast majority of cases.

    People considered high risk, should be encouraged to have a hospital birth definitely, and they are. Most midwife led units will not take on high risk pregnancies, theyre not supposed to anyway. If a woman insists on a homebirth however then she has the right to a midwife even if she is high risk and really should be in a hospital.

    You havent said that the father should decide, but you did say you wouldnt `allow` your wife to go to a midwife led centre, as you wanted her to have a hospital birth.

    The last bit about if she was in the hospital in the first place she wouldnt have needed an ambulance - well what about the fact that most hospitals send you home again until the last few minutes anyway. `come back when your contractions are 5 minutes apart`. at least at home or in midwife centres, its supposed to be more of a relaxed atmosphere, youre in the place where youre going to stay, youre not going to be moved from home to ambulance/car, to ward to delivery suite etc. The chaos of a hospital can lead a lot of women to feeling incredibly out of control, make their bodies tense up, and can actually lead to medical intervention when it might not have even been necessary if they werent in such a clinical stressful environment in the first place. This was not my experience of a hospital birth, but other people ive known HAVE had bad experiences at hospitals. Ive also known women whove had really positive experiences of home birth, and another friend of mine was booked for a homebirth, but had to go into hospital in the end anyway for a section.

    I think if its a mothers second birth, the first went fine, and theres no other problems throughout the pregnancy then homebirth should be encouraged as a viable option.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ps. My reasons for choosing a hospital birth initially was because they clean up the mess for you rather than having your own bed ruined :p
    In the end that was the best choice for me anyway as Lenny was prem and needed to go to SCBU straight after.

    My husband was useless at the birth, he just sat there looking scared, and then grossed out :lol:. My mum was even worse, I had to get her to leave the room as she kept crying every time i had a contraction.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by rainbow brite
    but then I dont believe that a home birth or midwife unit birth is risking the childs life any more than a hospital birth in the vast majority of cases.

    Problem is that you don't know which cases the hospital will need to be involved in. For info, the example of my niece's birth which I gave earlier was a second birth and the first had gone fine.
    You havent said that the father should decide, but you did say you wouldnt `allow` your wife to go to a midwife led centre, as you wanted her to have a hospital birth.

    I'm sorry, I guess I was a little stong in the "allow" comment, I would do everything I could to persuade her that she should be in hospital. That said, I know that she trust my judgment on things like that anyway...
    The last bit about if she was in the hospital in the first place she wouldnt have needed an ambulance - well what about the fact that most hospitals send you home again until the last few minutes anyway.

    They also let you stay at home for the other nine months too.

    I guess we should look at the moment when most complication occur, and it's not when contraction are several minutes apart. Even at five minutes the birth can be hours away...
    The chaos of a hospital can lead a lot of women to feeling incredibly out of control

    Are you telling me that they are in control during childbirth ;)
    :p
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Man Of Kent
    Are you telling me that they are in control during childbirth ;)
    :p
    I think they can be in the right situation.

    I think the thing is, that women have to be realistic. If they want a homebirth, then theyve got to realise that it might not be possible and prepare for that eventuality, and if they live miles and miles from the nearest hospital, then their best bet is to plan for a hospital birth because it wouldnt be easy to get thm to a hospital if it became necessary.
    If all went well in my next pregnancy (if i have one) then I might consider a homebirth as long as the pregnancy went nearer to term and as long as the baby wasnt going to be huge, Lenny was big for his gestation and would have been a 9 and a half pounder if hed gone to term at least.
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