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Appauled at this NHS Hospital

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
Copied and pasted from bbc news/tyne area :
A hospital trust has admitted it was at fault over the death of an unborn baby after a drive between two hospitals.
The parents of Olivia Harrison believe she died while they travelled by car to a better equipped hospital because no ambulance was available.

The baby was due to have been born at the new midwife-led unit at Bishop Auckland General Hospital.

But when the baby's heart rate increased they were told to go to Darlington Memorial Hospital.


The baby's father Dean, 29, says he was told it would be quicker to drive his wife Andrea, 30, to a more high-tech unit in Darlington, rather than wait for an ambulance.

The couple, from Newton Aycliffe, County Durham, believe Olivia died during the journey.

County Durham and Darlington Acute Hospitals NHS Trust began an inquiry into the incident.

We have met Mrs Harrison and her husband today to apologise for our failure to care properly for her and her unborn child

Robert Aitken, medical director, County Durham and Darlington Acute Hospitals NHS Trust

It held a clinical review meeting to examine the circumstances surrounding the stillbirth.

In a statement, the trust's medical director Robert Aitken said: "The review has identified two failings, both of which led to Mrs Harrison receiving inappropriate care from the trust.

"Mrs Harrison was told she was eligible to give birth at the maternity unit at Bishop Auckland General Hospital. This advice breached the unit's own clinical guidelines.

"When it became clear on May 10 that Mrs Harrison required transfer to the unit at Darlington Memorial Hospital, the unit's guidelines say that an ambulance should have been arranged to take her there. No ambulance was requested for her.

"We have met Mrs Harrison and her husband today to apologise for our failure to care properly for her and her unborn child.

"Our community midwives will be contacting all women due to give birth at the midwife-led unit at Bishop Auckland to discuss any worries they may have.

"We intend to check the records of every woman booked to have their child at Bishop Auckland General Hospital to ensure that this is the correct option for them."




My heart goes out to the parents of this baby. You may be able to find other information about this case at www.thisisthenortheast.co.uk Its my local newspaper.

Another baby was also stillborn at the same hospital just a couple of weeks ago which hopefully that link will get you to the information about that case. Bear in mind this hospital has very recently undergone extensive rebuilding to make it a more modern hospital.
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Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    their loss must be unbearable, and my heart goes out to them too.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Working in an NHS Trust that has just undergone a six week inquest in to the death of three patients (triple suicide), I am somewhat sceptical about newspapers abilities to report the facts and in an objective manner.

    Obviously, whatever the hospital say or do will never replace the loss of a life and while not wishing to take from their loss (hence a separate post) this story prompts two questions

    How many births happen at this hospital?
    What is the current % rate for stillborn babies?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by hobbs
    How many births happen at this hospital?
    What is the current % rate for stillborn babies?

    Pass to be honest, I wouldnt even know where to start looking for figures.

    This is a large hospital which accomodates many people from County Durham. Now what concerns me is that any pregnancy can be plain sailing right through then at last minuite complications can and do arise. Mothers need immediate attention from registered qualified Doctors, now if this unit only consists of Midwives then surely patients are going to be put at risk?
    I have every confidence in midwives and I dont doubt that they have vigorous training but they are not trained if a mother has a difficult birth, thats why we have doctors available.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by BeckyBoo
    I have every confidence in midwives and I dont doubt that they have vigorous training but they are not trained if a mother has a difficult birth, thats why we have doctors available.
    yes they are trained. Some specialise in difficult births, but theyre not surgeons, and obviously cant perform a caesarean if its needed, but they can do all the other things. The vast majority of births dont need all the excess medical intervention, there is evidence that it can cause more problems than it cures. still births do happen even with doctors there. Its a complete tragedy, maybe if theyd had an ambulance there, the baby would have survived, but thats not a reason to say we shouldnt have midwife led units. For low risk pregnancies I think midwife led birthing centres or homebirths are a great option. The midwife led centre being a kind of halfway compromise between homebirth and hospital. Midwives are far more experienced and knowledgeable about childbirth than most doctors.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by BeckyBoo
    [BI have every confidence in midwives and I dont doubt that they have vigorous training but they are not trained if a mother has a difficult birth, thats why we have doctors available. [/B]

    training is vigorous. the few midwives I know have dealt with some particular difficult and life-threatening births (both mother and baby). BUT this has been done with support of doctors.

    So much can go wrong with births these days, that I don't reckon everything is okay until you actually have the baby in your arms, and even then ...

    and having just looked at RB's post I agree with her.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by rainbow brite
    but theyre not surgeons, and obviously cant perform a caesarean if its needed,

    I should have put that, yes. (ive just woke up lol)

    But lets assume I am in labour, everything is running smoothly and last minuite i need an emergency section what are they gonna do then ? It happens where mothers carry a baby with no problems and they then need a section urgently. Darlington Hospital which is the hospital where these mothers would have to be transferred is approx 25 mins away........bit dangerous do you not think ?
    Id be very worried if I was pregnant and was enrolled at Bishop Auckland hospital for my own well being and my unborn baby.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by BeckyBoo
    I should have put that, yes. (ive just woke up lol)

    But lets assume I am in labour, everything is running smoothly and last minuite i need an emergency section what are they gonna do then ? It happens where mothers carry a baby with no problems and they then need a section urgently. Darlington Hospital which is the hospital where these mothers would have to be transferred is approx 25 mins away........bit dangerous do you not think ?
    Id be very worried if I was pregnant and was enrolled at Bishop Auckland hospital for my own well being and my unborn baby.
    I chose a hospital birth too, but are you saying that people who choose homebirths or births in midwife led centres dont care about the welfare of their baby?
    I think in the vast majority of cases, homebirths are a very safe option, and if complications arise, then hospital is recommended. My friend had a homebirth with a waterpool booked, but when it came to it, she had to go into hospital to have a caesarean. I also know people whove had homebirths with absolutely no problems at all. I know people whove had hospital births that were a very negative experience, and there is evidence to say that people who have hospital births often DO have more medical intervention than is strictly necessary.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by rainbow brite
    you can find the statistics for live/still births here

    so for stillbirths its about 0.57% and for all neonate deaths its about 1.18%

    (if I done my stats caculation right that is)

    it would be interesting to see how this hospital/unit compares to the official figures
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Becky, I was just saying to my mum last night that I think any unit where a woman is giving birth should be equipt to deal with emergency situations and I agree with you.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by rainbow brite
    but are you saying that people who choose homebirths or births in midwife led centres dont care about the welfare of their baby?

    No im not saying that. What im saying is that if you choose to have a home birth and you have complications then its your fault for wanting a home birth, nobody would force that upon you. So if someone decides to have a home birth then so be it on their head if any complications arise.

    This woman was classed as a high risk patient in early pregnancy yet she was never moved to Darlington which has the qualified surgeons if things go wrong. She should have been booked into Darlington in the first place.

    The hospital has accepted liability in this case and I hope that it never happens again. Id also like to see surgeons back in the hospital so if there is an emergency the woman can be treated. Like in this case there was no ambulance so the husband had to drive to Darlington. An ambulance would have had the blues and twos on and got her there quicker...........would the baby have survived, we will never know.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    thats true Becky, If she was high risk from the start, they should never have accepted her. Most midwife led units specify that they are for low risk pregnancies only, so you cant tar them all with the same brush.
    At the end of the day though, a woman has the right to give birth wherever she wants, high risk or not. They cant make someone go to a hospital if they want a homebirth, but if its a really high risk, then obviously they will have to live with themselves if anything goes wrong. As I said before, I chose a hospital, because I wanted that security, plus I wanted all the pain relief :p , but I do think homebirth sounds like a lovely experience for the people that have it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by rainbow brite
    but I do think homebirth sounds like a lovely experience for the people that have it.

    Nah I wouldnt thank you for it, but hey we are all different. I only had gas and air and boy oh boy did it make me stoopid :D
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Bishop Auckland General Hospital is a new PFI unit.

    Discuss.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by J
    The mother is more likely to be relaxed making the birth less of a stress on both the mother and the new born baby.

    Sorry but thats not totally correct. Many ladies are quite stressed at the thought of having no expert help if there was an emergency. Many like myself would never contemplate a home birth because the fear of complications and having no doctor available if there was an emergency.
    Id be very stressed having a home birth.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by J
    Fair enough, I guess as long as the mother is physicaly and emotionaly relaxed during birth that everything should be fine. Are maternity wards in hospitals fairly homely and warm? That's all I think about, the stark reality of being born into a clinical environment, it must be a shock to the new born baby and it's impossible to determine exactly how this would affect the child. First impressions count and all that. :)
    Jesus was born in a stable surrounded by hay and animals, he did alright. :p
    I agree with you. There are a lot of people who *really* hate hospitals. If they had to give birth in a hospital they wouldnt be able to relax, which would in turn make the birth more difficult and medical intervention would then be more likely - CAUSED by being in a hospital. If theyd given birth at home in a relaxing environment, a lot of the problems wouldnt have existed in the first place. When youre in a hospital giving birth, you are expected to just lay on the bed and give birth lying down - going against all natures rules of gravity, no wonder medical intervention is more common in hospital than anywhere else.
    Delivery rooms in hospitals are not homely or particularly welcoming.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Maybe choice is the issue. It seems that different women here have different opinions and allowances should be made for that as much as possible. I have read stories recently where women have absolutely no control over the birth experience and are distressed by the whole thing which must affect the baby before and after birth and account for some post natal depression.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Kermit
    Bishop Auckland General Hospital is a new PFI unit.

    Discuss.

    Why should this affect the ability of a nursing team to arrange for an ambulance?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Man Of Kent
    Why should this affect the ability of a nursing team to arrange for an ambulance?

    Just wondered what you actually thought about this case ?


    Getting back to deliveries, we are all different so what suits one person would not suit another. I had no complaint when i was in hospital having my Daughter (8 yrs ago). The staff were brilliant, nothing was forced upon me (well it was very quick anyhow lol). I had no stress during delivery......apart from hoping it was going to be over quick.
    So I reckon each to their own, but I think more women opt for hospital delivery purely on the same basis as myself which is if there was an emergency it would be better treated at the hospital rather than home.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by BeckyBoo
    Just wondered what you actually thought about this case ?

    From the information here, I'd say that the patient should never have been admitted to a midwife run service - the was a clear risk of complications and such services cannot cope.

    Personally I have problems with midwofe led services like this anyway. Biorth is always a matter of life an death and circumsatnce can change very quickly. Put is this was, I would never allow my wife to go to such a unit.
    So I reckon each to their own, but I think more women opt for hospital delivery purely on the same basis as myself which is if there was an emergency it would be better treated at the hospital rather than home.

    Indeed. Medical science has achieve many great things. We should embrace that rather than go for fads - which is what home birth are in many cases.

    Again a personal perspective is that choosing home birth actually puts your child at greater risk and should be discouraged whenever possible...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    just noticed the bad spelling of title, should it be appaled?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by wheresmyplacebo
    just noticed the bad spelling of title, should it be appaled?
    appalled I think.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by rainbow brite
    When youre in a hospital giving birth, you are expected to just lay on the bed and give birth lying down - going against all natures rules of gravity

    This is not the case or at least not where i live anymore. They do encourage you to walk around as much as possible if you dont have an epidural that is.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I personally think that anyonwe who chooses to have a birth away form a proper hosptial is taking a big risk.
    If i didn't go to hospital me & my baby would have died. It all got dangerous very quickly & i was ran down the corridor to have a c-section & even then it was risky if we would be ok or not. How do you think that would have turnt out should be have had a home birth? I dread to think!!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Tweety
    How do you think that would have turnt out should be have had a home birth? I dread to think!!

    Which emphasies the point I was making really.

    Every birth carries huge risks. Because medical science has moved on in leaps and bounds, we now take child birth for granted. We seem to think that it is just another day (within reason girls!) and we seem to be blase because so few birth now end up with a dead mother or baby, in comparision to our forebares.

    But during, even a straightforward birth, the lives of both baby and mother are in the balance. Now it might feel trendy or more relaxing to be at home, it might cost the NHS less to have a midwife run service, it might make it easier to supply consultant cover if we have more midwive led unit but ultimately we are putting peoples lives on the line.

    My personal opinion is that we should damn the feelings of the mother and look at what is in the best interests of the child.

    BTW No-one has mentioned the father in these discussions, no-one has mentioned that he might fell more comfortable with a hospital birth - even though his partner may not. Why do we always forget the father when it comes to child birth?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Man Of Kent
    BTW No-one has mentioned the father in these discussions, no-one has mentioned that he might fell more comfortable with a hospital birth - even though his partner may not. Why do we always forget the father when it comes to child birth?

    Well Chris would have also insisted i have a hospital birth. He was a bag of nerves as it was.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Tweety
    He was a bag of nerves as it was.

    Aren't we all at that moment ;)

    Not often that we are taken into account though.

    More that we are "suffered" by the medical profession...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Man Of Kent
    Aren't we all at that moment ;)

    Not often that we are taken into account though.

    More that we are "suffered" by the medical profession...

    True but i guess at the end of the day the it comes down to the mother as she does the hard work :p.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by wheresmyplacebo
    just noticed the bad spelling of title, should it be appaled?

    Sorry, didnt think Id walked into an English lesson :rolleyes:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Man Of Kent
    Why do we always forget the father when it comes to child birth?

    Because at the end of the day its the mother who is delivering the baby, not the father.
    The father may really want a hospital birth but if the mother is not happy then a hospital birth is not an option. I feel that the choice of delivery of a baby and where to have it belongs with the woman, after all its her who is delivering and she has to be the one who is most comfortable.
    The woman may listen to what the father has to say but the last word on delivery has to be the mothers.
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