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What would you say about British Vanunu?
BillieTheBot
Posts: 8,721 Bot
I mean the man who gave up secrets about Israel’s nuclear weapon and spent 18 years in prison.
My question: what would you say if some British man did the same?
Is he a traitor or a hero?
My question: what would you say if some British man did the same?
Is he a traitor or a hero?
Beep boop. I'm a bot.
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Read for example this BBC discussion about him http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/talking_point/3645079.stm
At no point did the disclosure of Israel's weapons put the country in peril of any kind- despite absurd claims to the contrary- so he cannot be considered a traitor.
At a time when we claim to be fighting to make the world a safer place it's about time Israel's nuclear arsenal was at the very least declared and monitored, and the disgusting and illegal-as-hell biological and chemical weapons it also has destroyed immediately.
What if his actions HAD had more dire consceqences?
If anyone did it here I'd hope they'd get 18 years in prison.
I suppose you consider all the Iraqi defectors who have given 'evidence' against Saddam Hussein for the last 12 years despicable traitors as well?
It wouldn't make them a hero, but they wouldn't be a traitor.
I’m not asking about that Israeli guy, I’m asking what would you say if some British scientist gave an interview to Jerusalem Post about British secret arsenals of some weapon of mass destruction. It’s easy to say this Israeli guy is a peace fighter especially if you don’t like Israel’s policy…
To me no, but to their own people there's every chance they are hated.
It's all well and good saying patriotism is stupid, but at the end of the day the most important thing that people identify with is their country.
I couldn't care less about him blabbing his secrets, but thats because he's not British. My country comes first because I have to live here.
That is why Iraqi defectors (or those who told the truth anyway) were not really being traitors to the country and people of Iraq when they defected and gave detailed accounts of Saddam's past weapons programmes and catalogue of human right abuses. They might have betrayed the government and the President of Iraq, but certainly not its people.
The same applies to Vanunu.
At the end of the day, comparing Vanunu to those pampered Iraqi exiles who lived in luxury in the west whilst their countrymen felt the full brutality of repeated invasions and over a decade of privation (largely maintained by Washington on direct advice from these selfsame exiles), is like comparing apples and oranges.
Vanunu exposed the illegal activities of a rogue government and he was right to do so in the interests of humanity.
The vast majority of the people wouldn't see it like that. Remember, a lot of Iraqis still show their support to this day for Hussein, and if they really loved the defectors then they would return home, surely?
Same here.
No it bloody ain't.....
Also a question for your patriotism?
Why is that doing something against the government or the state is always being a traitor? This is not at all the same as putting the 'nation' in danger.
As a British person I want to know what kind of stuff the military of this nation that we all pay for to protect us is doing. Thus anyone who reveals what they are doing when they do not say so themselves is a good person.
people who stick with the 'Israel is good because they are a democracy' line ought to think about this and reflect on the nature of the democracy they expound in Israel.........
It satisfies your curiosity, reassures you that your defense forces are actually working, but to people who would want to attack britain it gives them important information that they can use to attack us where we are vulnerable.
A mi.litary spokesmen makes a broadcast:
"We are spending £10 billion on a new range of chemical warheads"
Our enemies now know we have chameical warheads how are we weaker?
Would you really be comfortable not knowing whether we had nukes or not? Do you really think we would be safer if the military had kept our nukes secret?
I guess not, but say someone had said that we are keeping secret nuclear weapons in :chin: Manchester or something. I don't see the need to talk about defense really, it's not like we are a vulnerable country.
and if we said we didnt have secret nukes and some guy said we did just for the sake of letting the world know we werent as innocent, then he shouldnt have been imprisoned as it was for a common good
but if he done it to profit and/or broke the official secrets act, then he should have been arrested
double standards,but thats secret police for you
It's known as M.A.D.
The whole principle of a nuclear or chemical deterrent is based on MAD. Mutually Assured Destruction.
A terrorist won't in his right mind set a nuke off in London, because under the laws of MAD he'd see his home country vanish in a flash of nuclear fire. I can guarantee as well, if the prime minister was killed in a nuclear explosion power would be transferred to the military. They won't take shit.
Whichever way you look at it, Vanunu didn't commit an act of treason or put Israel in any danger whatsoever.
Whatever. Still a stupid cunt though.
Are they also stupid cunts? Or simply (to repeat certain people's favourite expression) 'self-hating Jews'?
And who the fuck was mentioning other Israelis?
I am merely talking about him as a person.
As a person I really doubt he'd be a hero to anyone except his mother who raised him to be as he is.
Apparently our own govts are against proliferation of WMD so they should be keen.....:rolleyes:
But believe it or not the expression is widely used in neo-con circles, be internet forums, websites or even sectors of the media. Basically if you are Jewish and you commit the unforgivable temerity of saying or doing something that goes against the Israeli government or the zionist movement then you are obviously a 'self-hating Jew'. Since they can hardly accuse Jewish people of being anti-Semite (although incredibly it has been known to happen) this is what they come up with. Any Jewish person who ever dares to raise their concerns about the Israeli government's catalogue of atrocities, land appropriation or stockpiling of WMDs must clearly be some sort of disturbed self-hating person.
As for "who the fuck was mentioning other Israelis", well it was me. You were saying how much of a stupid cunt the man is in your eyes, I was merely pointing out that it doesn't seem to be the case with some Israelis, who appear to see him in a rather more positive way. I mean, if the crowds greeting him outside jail are anything to go by his supporters appear to be as numerous if not more than those jeering. No small feat considering the absurd amount of smearing and negative bias the man will no doubt will have had to endure from the government and much of the media.
Then again I've never met him myself so he could perfectly be a stupid cunt at a personal level.
Not that I have met him, and I certainly don't hope to either, as I don't have a lack of encounters with rough and tasteless people.
That is incredibly presumptuous of you Jacq, especially given the sordid manner in which he was kidnapped by his own government and denied due process and humane treatment.
To endure that as he has done shows considerable strength of character!
On the way he has chosen to act and present himself.
Just like one does with people in real life...