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Your definition however suggests that as soon as the child can live outside the mother its alive ... but what do you think kicking is. Its not controlled by the mother so must be alive.
And once the child is outside the womb it wont survive a day without its mother .... so can it be killed then?
I agree with you saying that a mother should beable to do with her body as she pleases. Thats not the corner im fighting against. Im saying that it shouldnt be a 'nice' thing to do, and it shouldnt be a decision free from guilt.
If a mother were to cut off a toenail that is justified and has no emotion. But to remove from her body something, which will change become life should have a guilt and a stigma attached.
Until the foetus can exist outside of the mother in its own right, it isn't a living organism. End of.
And this is nonsensical.
You're male aren't you? So am I.
We have no idea what its like to be able to bear children, so whether a woman should or should not feel guilty for having an abortion is fuck all to do with us.
And no one should be made to feel anything that they don't. Who are you to say what someone should feel?
Not quite end of ... a virus is a living organism that exists within a host. We cannot deny that it is living because during its life span it 'eats'* and reproduces itself (the signs of life).
... so for an organism to be living inside another does not automatically make that organism a part of its host, more living off it.
So because the life (the foetus) cant exist outside the body does not automatically mean it isnt alive.
Where is your proof that that foetus isnt alive?
The so called 'nonsensical' part of my argument was simply showing that just because an organism does not show any signs of responce to an external stimulus we should be allowed to dispose of it.
*edited inverted commas added as a virus doesnt actually eat, more consumes
A virus is not technically alive.
But I still don't see your point.
If a woman doesn't feel guilty about having an abortion, so what? What the fuck does it have to do with you, me, or anyone else?
That one day that collection of cells might develop to become a human being is not relevant to the whole argument of guilt (let alone of “killing babies”, as the fundamentalist anti-abortionists are fond of saying).
Do you believe in contraception Addis? If you believe that a woman should feel guilty about having an abortion because she’s stopping that collection of cells from developing into a human being, shouldn’t the woman (and her partner) also feel guilty about taking the pill, thus stopping conception and denying a potential human being its existence?
I don't agree with anything the Catholics have to say about most things, but at least they are consistent. If you want to take the whole "potential person" argument, you have to take it all the way...
if you dont like the idea of 'willy-nilly abortion, then you must consider abortion to be more that a bunch of cells.
I think if a woman wants an abortion fine, as long as they are not ignorant of what they are doing. The term its not a life till... is upto personal choice but anything activly growing will hit that point and stopping that from happening shouldnt be an easily acceptable thing to do.
Blagsta:
I'm male yea... and i have no idea about bearing children
but if my girlfriend/wife/partner chooses to abort a child, i will still have the knowledge that an organism that had potential to be my son/daughter was denied the right to exist. So I'd like her to take that into account before she makes a decision, because i will have no choice but i will still feel that.
Its none of your fucking business, frankly.
This is according to society in general (which does include the majority of medial/scientific details) but is not based on fact just based on an agreed point at which one becomes another, there is no magical transformation just an agreed-upon point.
Yes I believe in contraception. Contraception stops fertilization the point at which the chain of events resulting in life beings. The pill (or one variety at least) tricks the womans body into believing its pregnant already and thus stop fertilization.
I have my own view and I am justified to excercise it. I havent tried to preach this onto anyone Im only defending my opinion. My definition of life is once the egg has been fertilized the chain of events leading to that life has begun.
If you arent able to debate without swearing then, I dont really care for your opinion. Its a debate, my opinion against yours... its not a my dads bigger than yours contest.
Its not my business its my opinion. However I believe the father has no say in the matter and the decision will effect him (positively or negatively) and should my partner become pregant then my opinion will become the way i will play the situation.
**sorry about being anal then just cant stand it when it becomes a swear off
In other words, an intervention to stop a human being from being created.
Isn't that exactly the same as abortion?
and say if your girlfriend/wife partner was to keep her baby on that basis, and it ended up limiting the things she could do with her life, and she was never really happy after that, i hope you would feel guilty.
yes, a fetus is alive. but a mother is also alive, and a mother has thoughts and feeling and memories and responsibilities, and family and friends and experiences, so therefore, in my opinion, mother comes first. always. and if she feels like she can't cope with a baby then she should be able to have an abortion.
I agree, but saying that I've never had an abortion either, so I wouldn't know what it's like.
However, I'm fiercely pro choice, so I believe women should be allowed and anti-abortion people should either quit preaching about what other gals should do with their bodies, or adopt all the kids that end up with the social services or in homes for kids.
However saying that, I don't know if I could ever have an abortion.
Where exactly does it say the programme is part of a Party Political Broadcast??
It says ....
During the 1997 and 2001 general elections Channel 4 and other broadcasters refused to broadcast images of aborted foetuses which formed part of the ProLife Alliance's party election broadcasts
Doesn't say this film is anything to do with that ...
I agree with the statment on that link you gave
"Everyone, especially women, has a right to know what abortion really involves."
Something like 45 Million Abortions are performed around the world every year ... so I see nothing wrong in helping some people who wish to see the film make an informed decision.
I feel no guilt about my abortion but it could be that it's because I disassociated myself from what I was doing so Addis may have a point.
People set moral boundaries in order to save themselves guilt.
Of course having an abortion isn't going to be a 'nice' thing to do, it wouldn't be a pleasant experience...
The opinion that it shouldn't be a decision free from guilt isn't mine, having had an abortion, I see no reason for me to feel guilty about it, I had the choice to terminate or carry on with the pregnancy and I chose to terminate, I have nothing to feel guilty about. Women have the choice and I don't think a programme like the one that's going to be shown, will influence many women's choices. They have the right and they'll exercise it if they want to.
I think the film maker has similar attitudes to myself ""until society can allow women to discuss abortion openly without feeling guilty or being condemned we can't make an informed decision about where the upper limit should be set"
Someone just came into my office (A bloke) and started talking about the programme and asking my opinion.
Same here - Though kinda forgotten about it as well -
It was not what I expected at all. The procedure took about 3 mins and basically using like a syringe thing extracted it. Having a nose bleed had more blood. Hopefully people who thought having a termination is wrong now have seen that a termination in early pregnancy is not murdering/killing a baby, it was a tiny piece of matter taken from the body. It was not a baby it was just a cell.
Also after watching the programme I do not agree with late terminations. So yeah i think/hope the showing of this programme has done some good.