Academics claim men are more intelligent than women

Former Member

Debating this issue is getting a bit tiresome imo, so I'll just sum up what I meant in order to clarify my position. I guess the main points I intended to make in my previous post were basically two:

First, that the concept of Intelligence has advanced more rapidly than psychometry has, therefore, IQ tests are an incomplete measure of (modernly understood) Intelligence. So now more than ever we cannot make IQ to mean an equivalent of Intelligence. They are not synonyms.

And second, about the results of this study in particular, that we shouldn't just swallow them without a critical look at the limitations of the study. This is not to say that this study can't be an indication of truth, as you say, of course it is an indication... my point is exactly that they are only indications, not absolute truths, which is why they should be reviewed under a critical light (as any serious scientific study should).

On these points here:

carlito wrote:

But this explicitly ackowledges that women are less "intelligent" than men, whether or not they had the potential to be more intelligent. It is saying that society and oppurtunity has failed to allow women to achieve the "intelligence" they could have gained. But it still indicates that they are less intelligent, on average, it is just providing an explanation of why.

Yes, definitely, I did not intend that to mean anything different from what you are saying here. I was simply pointing out a possible reason of why there are differences, simply to illustrate that we have to be careful at the moment of interpreting these results (ie, is it going to be attributed to genetic ability or explore other possible social factors that can account for the differences?)

It also contradicts the fact that females/women are consistently outperforming men in both education and in occupational roles. This suggests that there is little credence to the idea that there is some kind of societal bias that does not allow women's intelligence to fully develop.

Well tbh I'm not familiriased at all with this information, and don't really understand what is meant by 'occupational roles' (how is performance in this area measured?). But I'm sure if we got into it there would be a lot of terrain of possibilities to explore than can account for the apparent contradiction. However, that's another issue I'm presently not really bothered with tbh.

But it is a good idea to try and identify the particular cognitive abilities the two genders are blessed with.

Totally agree, these studies should be made as they allow us to know ourselves better. We should just be careful on how we interpret the results, what causes we attribute to their findings, and how we use the information they provide us.

Former Member

Thank God I thought there was an argument there. So we can all agree that European males are the smartest...yeh?

Former Member

So what if we switch this arguement... To say that afro-carrebean people have lower IQs? Does that mean that afro-carrebeans are genetically more stupid than Indian people?

What about people with learning difficulties (like myself) who score lower on an IQ test? Does that mean that certain group of people are less intelligent than somebody who is more 'able'?

I've been through a fair few tests with my dyspraxia, where my performance IQ in some areas is different to my verbal IQ. For example, sequencing is difficult for me and I have a poor short term memory (sorry to make this personal, am just drawing from experience). I wouldn't score very well on an IQ test because of my learning difficulty, but that does not mean that I am less intelligent than somebody who scores a few points higher than me, it just means that area of one hemisphere of their brain is slightly better and more trained (you can train yourself with IQ tests) than the other.

There are also differences between verbal inteligence, emotional intelligence, creative intelligence... Some people are better at grasping theories, some are better at mathematics, some are better at sociology.

Carlito
My own view is that whilst men outperform women at the very top end of "pure" (mathematical, scientific, logical) intelligence, women outperform men in terms of emotional and social intelligence, the ability to "do many things at the same time" - or I would say more importantly "take into consideration many things at the same time," which in many ways is a more useful range of cognitive ability to have.

Maybe... Or maybe it is the way that we are socialised. Maybe men are exercising or using those areas more frequently in their studies becasue they decide to choose (for example) computer science, mathematics or biology and maybe women are more inclined to study criminology, sociology or psychology (for example).

Former Member

seeker wrote: »

Must see TV for me too.

However,as a criticism, I saw some of the (implied and openly explicit) statements in the narration as incorrect.

Don't want to go off topic - as Curtis probably deserves more than one thread to himself but...

I don't think he's ever claimed to be correct, as much as creating a polemic position

Adam Curtis wrote:

I want to try to make people look at things they think they know about in a new way

And he's definately the best thing to come out of That's Life!

Former Member

Yerascrote wrote: »

Thank God I thought there was an argument there. So we can all agree that European males are the smartest...yeh?

Well, if you consider studies using IQ valid, east-Asian men are the "smartest" on average.

Former Member

Jim V wrote: »

Don't want to go off topic - as Curtis probably deserves more than one thread to himself but...

Thanks for the link to "Century of the Self" Jim, best documentary series I've seen in a long time. :nervous:

Former Member

I'm With Stupid wrote: »

The light that burns twice as brightly, burns half as long.

Exactly. Better to burn out than fade away.

Former Member

slightly off topic but the average male has different capabilities to the average female, but this difference can be pointless to discriminate with when you take into account the obvious fact:
EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT and so you can find female architects who are better than almost all men, and men who are far better on emotional matters than most women

Former Member

It was a man who invented the sewing machine, apparently

Former Member

carlito wrote: »

Thanks for the link to "Century of the Self" Jim, best documentary series I've seen in a long time. :nervous:

Yeah, I got a few people who are interested in his earlier stuff - we might try to contact him about organising a screening but as far as I can tell the BBC don't release programmes for viewing.

Former Member

Yerascrote wrote: »

Thank God I thought there was an argument there. So we can all agree that European males are the smartest...yeh?

Ashekenazi Jews have the highest IQ of all people :yes:

They are somewhat inbred though.

Former Member

carlito wrote: »

What I find confusing is the assumption expressed by many here that these people at the British Journal of Psychology (and elsewhere) have not taken into consideration the arguments against IQ testing before conducting a large and expensive study using it as the method of measurement. Why is this?

So they can continue living in their little dreamworlds without bothering to question their delusions of equality and cultural determinism.