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And moreover, why do they struggle to keep them on the job?
It is not a good wage either. And unless someone is on a very, very good wage pay cuts should never be an option. Specially when largely surplus senior managers are getting obscene wages, bonuses and rises.
The problem is with retention of nursing staff both in terms of retaining them for long enough to complete the course and qualify, and in terms of actually going on to take a job within the NHS post-reg as a lot of qualified nurses (myself included) don't go [immediately, at least] into a nursing job... or alternatively they go abroad. That's why there's talk of "paying back" the bursary with a certain period of NHS service after people qualify.
There is a struggle to attract people to a career in nursing and keep them there, and little wonder when their payrises don't even meet inflation. To suggest otherwise is bollocks.
Yeah but some people have different lifestyles. Eg, my sister lives in London but she cycled everywhere, therefore her transport costs are nil. Others would expect to drive a petrol heavy car everywhere, by themselves (ie not splitting costs with passengers), plus have fully comp insurance, which is going to cost loads. It's just down to priorities.
I assume most people don't buy alone as to buy alone you would either need very rich parents or a very high salary by yourself. It shouldn't be like that, but that is the way it is.
There are schemes about now to supposedly help people on a low wage buy houses, such as 50% buy, but then you end up paying a mortgage AND rent.
If someone sorted out bloody rich people doing buy to let it would help.
Sorry to go off topic.
And there is far more money in the private sector and in private hands. As ever it's the distribution of that wealth that is the issue.
In the private sector it does (for whatever industry concerned), but not necessarily for the public sector.
Even if it was the symptom of weakness does not mean that it is not a good policy to achieve a goal, which is low govt deficit and inflation, both signs of a strong economy...
Are her hours and work load comparable to you?
You're having a laugh ain't you? £19K is fuck all for a professional job like nursing.
I can't believe the bullshit you're coming out with. Have you any idea what nursing entails?
What planet are you on? In no way can £20K be considered a good professional wage. I agree that care assistants also get shit money. However, care assistants don't train for 3 years.
No. I have a soul. I work directly for the NHS and am bound by the same wage structure as Nurses.
Management Consultants work for themselves/private companies and charge by the day.
19K is the starting wage for a nurse (this is according to my friend). It then goes up depending on what training and role they have. I think that is quite good, and certainly within the group of people I know, it is good.
Do you have to resort to swearing every time someone says something you don't agree with?
In an ideal world everyone working would get at least 30K and be able to buy a home but we don't live in a perfect world.
I do think 20K is a good wage, for myself but at the moment I don't have kids, I might change my mind in the future. Am I not allowed to say that I think 20k is a good wage? Just because some people don't agree!
My friend, who is a newly qualified nurse, personally said to me that she wanted to become a nurse because it offered her a good career opportunity where she could move up and earn a decent wage to help bring her kids up on, she is also a home owner.
I guess it depends what background you're from. I consider 20K a good wage, I guess if you are brought up to expect more then you wouldn't.
Your a real working class hero aren't you?
Won't get out of bed for less than 20k, and your the one always claiming to be 'in touch with the masses'
Thatcher's children.
What the fuck are you on about?
Who said anything about not getting out of bed for less than £20K?
Got any points to make Toadborg? How's your "masters" (snigger) degree coming along?
:thumb: That's right.
It would hardly be ideal though because other prices would increase accordingly... e.g. if all tesco workers were on £30k then prices in the shop would increase...
For some it is, and of course that's basic and there are top ups for night shift etc.
But you are talking about the people who care for you when yuo are sick and personally, I value my care higher than that.
Give Gordon his due, wages have increased significantly in his tenure but it still isn't enough IMHO. At least not for some of the nursing gardes. Us Managers and Doctors are paid well enough as far as I am concerned.
:thumb:
Interesting how people latch onto the nurses but not all of the other civil servants affected. Guess emotions play a part...
It might objectively be a "good" wage, but it is not good enough for nurses imo. Illustrated perfectly by the scores of qualified nurses who leave the profession year after year because the incredibly draining workload, disruptive shift patterns and meagre compensation are just too much. Obviously nurses love their job (for the most part, anyway) but we all work to be paid at the end of the day, and at the end of the day I don't think services rendered match up with the payslip.
I know this will sound patronising, don't take it that way, but it is glaringly obvious that you don't know a lot about the role of a nurse. If your friend indeed thinks that she is being paid fairly for her work then I suspect she undervalues herself too, because she should be being paid more.
Of course they do. Being a nurse is a much more demanding job than pushing paper in the civil service.
Private and Public sector operate differently.
It's not viable to compare the two when it comes to wages, there will always be more money in the private sector because of various things.
The problem with the Public sector is that there are too many rules and too many limitations. And also things like money allocation, (in simple terms here's 10 grand, you got a year to spend it, if you don't, you won't get that much next year, and that money has it's limitations, eg if you get 10k for office equipment, you can't spend it on team building).
Civil servants ARE underpaid, they deal with most important issues in people's lives all the time.
However, nurses are grossly underpaid, just look at the gap between a doctors pay and nurses pay which I imagine is pretty wide.
Also, a strong economy with an ever rising inflation is a paradox.
It's not so much about distribution of wealth, but distribution of funds.
Blagsta, why do you have to bring up Margaret Thatcher? I don't even remember her and find her completely irrelavent to my life. Remember this is a site for people aged 16 to 24 primarily, so references to Thatcher don't really mean much to most. I was 7 when she left her office.
I know. :chin:
I was taking the proverbial piss.
Do you think pay should reflect your skills and experience in the public sector as it does in the private sector?
Also, do you think that everybody should be on the minimum wage possible for them to be able to survive/be comfortable or do you think that there are wage classes for jobs and wage classes within jobs?
Private Sector is driven by benefits and bonuses.
Public sector is not.
Thus the low motivation within the public sector.
Also, if you live with a partner and you are both on 20k each, that's obviously more than enough.
However if you are on your own, it's not. Relatively speaking of course, as everything is relative to one thing or the other.
But mainly - everyone calm down, there's a debate taking place here that doesn't require people bitching.
Do you think £20K is fair pay for dealing with life and death and all the emotional stress that involves?
Because your attitude is a Thatcherite one. Thatcher succeeded in making your attitude to nurses pay seem like an acceptable attitude. You are a child of Thatcher.
Yet it is kat who is saying that 20k is a lot of money and you saying the opposite!
So you seem to have things the wrong way round......
It does look like that, doesn`t it ?
Similarly, Aladdin says
and yet, in this thread, money IS the one and only concern.
Confusing.
Oh I believe they can see it, only it's much more fun to veer away from the discussion and try to get a rise out of people.
Childish.
Frankly, it's sad to see that people can't have a objective discussion and at least be open to another person's view if not agreeing.