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George Bush Syndrome
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Does anyone else feel like the climate in the US has been totally changed in recent years? During the Clinton years, it was "cool" to be smart and in the know. Pop culture reflected this in the form of Seinfeld and Pulp Fiction. Now, the Bush way is king. In pop culture you've got stuff like the rise of Jessica Simpson and the proliferation of dumbness-celebrating reality shows like Armed & Famous and America's Got Talent. Is this a neverending downward spiral? Or is there hope?
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To be fair to the US though, some American TV is still great - think The Sopranos, Desperate Housewives, Will & Grace etc. US TV production companies like HBO are still churning out crackers ...
I don't see how reality TV is any more dumb than the likes of Jerry Springer before it, and trashy gameshows before that. People have always enjoyed a bit of light entertainment, I don't think you can blame it for dumbing down America. And like someone has said, some of the best drama series have come out of America in the past few years, like The Soprano's, The West Wing, 24, Lost, (though to put Will and Grace in there is surely a crime against good comedy). Oh and Big Brother is Dutch anyway. Look at the quality of news if you want to see what the real problem is in the US. I mean our own tabloids aren't much better, but at least we've got relatively good TV news to back it up.
HBO does commission and produce some fantastic TV but it is a tiny, tiny proportion of what America produces [and watches]. I remember being in the US a couple of years ago and flicking through about 100 channels to find nothing of any consequence or interest on at all. You could definitely say similar about the UK but it has nowhere near the same level of dense, mind-numbing telly or entertainment. Whether it will go that way is another story...
I definitely think there's something in what you said, ConnieThompson, I'd never really thought of that before. 'Tis interesting.
I mean stealing not 1 but 2 presidency's, conning his country and others to go to war, staying in power despite continues "failures", heading up an oil-dollar conspiracy, making steps to increase American interest and resources abroad, deals with multinational companies earning billions in profeits???
If he did all of that, would that really be a 'dumb' person?
Maybe he isn't as dumb as people think or maybe he hasn't done all the things he is accused of?
Just a thought.
Even when Clinton was in there were reality TV programs like COPS, for example.
Pop music... Backstreet Boys, N Sync (spl?)... TV shows like Friends...
Pulp Fiction always has been a cult thing really... I don't think it's anything to do with Bush.
Besides, pop culture is always changing. You can't blame Blair for the fact that indie is currently popular can you.
And I don't know if you're American, but I've met plenty of Americans here, ost of which have been articulate and intelligent. They've said that they have "rednecks" in the states, but that a large amount of people aren't like that.
Plus you can't generalise to such a huge country. Alabama is vastly different to Washington.
Oi, nothing wrong with COPS or Sheriff John Bunnell.
Nah, its nothing to do with that. It does however, have alot to do with the change in popular culture. Somehow it is now seen to be cool to be stupid and drop out of school, or even better, be expelled!
Somehow people with no future are "cool" now.
If it was GWB's fault it would only be in the USA. It isn't.
US ratings.
I can't find the UK figures, but unless there has been a major change its likely that Eastenders and Corrie will be battling it out for the top spot...
Make of that what you will, but within that list are several must see's (Desperate Housewives, Law and Order, CSI, Ugly Betty and the Simpsons)
Anyway, a typical week in Britain to compare (I chose a November week, since Christmas fucks everything up):
Corrie
Eastenders
Strictly Come Dancing
Heartbeat (:eek2:!? Must've been the week that everyone tuned in to see someone say "bloody" on the show for the first time or something)
Emmerdale
I'm A Celebrity
X Factor
Children In Need
Casualty
Planet Earth (:yippe: )
All Star Family Fortunes
Holby City
Lottery
MOTD
Spooks
Obviously a bad week for TV that I picked. Drama's do get in there though. Silent Witness is a regular in the top 10 when it's on, as is Doctor Who, Life on Mars, and comedies like Little Britain. But the vast majority of original British dramas only last 6 shows, rising to 10-12 for something established, because they don't have the budget to commission 18-24 episodes like in the US, unless it's a guarenteed ratings, like Dr. Who. Which is why there is far more emphasis on continuing drama like Eastenders, Corrie, Emmerdale, Holby City, Casualty and The Bill (also usually in the top 20). They seem to be learning the value of DVD though, so I would expect more self-contained series in the future, particularly from the BBC, where initial ratings aren't as vital.
The Nielsen system
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nielsen_Ratings
I think the UK mainly measures in millions, but I think we use a similar system of measuring (eg a selection of viewer diary and technology). I suspect more than normal polling TV ratings is an inexact science. However at the same time I would guess that as its used to figure how much adverts should cost there's a lot of people with vested interests that it should be accurate.
Fair point about the Xmas figures and I suspect there's some holdover into 1-7 Jan figures (at least for New Years Day).
http://www.tvsquad.com/2006/11/15/nielsen-ratings-for-the-week-ending-november-12/
I assume the above is a typical week which has Desperate Housewives first, then their equivalent to Strictly Come Dancing (second and third which I don't believe is used in the UK anymore - the various episodes of the soaps are almagamated and the omnibus edition of Eastenders is added I belive). But then there still remains plenty of quality including Lost and Greys Anatomy, CSI etc.
As an aside 60 Minutes is in there, which I'm not sure is due to something very big happening one day during that week or if the popular stereotype of the US not watching the news is incorrect.
Whilst there is still is a lot of UK television worth watching the US has improved dramatically in the last ten years, and the UK has declined. I'd put them more neck and neck rather than the UK leading as it once did.
HBO has done some absolutely cracking television series and should be praised as such.
I personally don't agree with people like David Beckham being lumped with talentless morons like Jade Goody. Beckham has, or at least had, a very considerable degree of talent hence why he was at the top of his game for so long and is the most famous footballer in the world.
The dumbing down of the BBC has been pretty shameful, especially considering it is the oldest and most world-renowned broadcasting organisation in the world. Oh well. Perhaps society was already dumb and they're just following the primary rule of journalism and giving the people what they want.
Oh well. I guess if you're dumb enough to look up to such people as role models then you deserve everything you get.
It still does an amazing balancing act considering it is obliged to cater for just about everybody's tastes and it has pressure put on it to keep ratings high whilst providing quality programmes the masses don't tend to watch.
As for US TV, it shows some absolutely excellent drama. The problem is that they show a lot more rubbish than they do quality. Think hundreds of cheap, deeply unfunny sitcoms and shite talk shows with idiotic audiences going 'ooooooooh' at everything. Not to mention amounts of adversiting that can drive a person to suicide.
Disagree. Maybe not academic intelligence but you still need to be able to make quick decisions based on differing sets of circumstances...
Exactly right. And academic intelligence isn't exactly a requirement for football. After all, Beckham's not being paid to pass exams. Also having excellent spacial awareness, positioning skills and even mere ball skills must require a certain degree of intelligence.
It is debatable whether Bush has ANY form of intelligence in his body.
I know the guys makes a lot or hysterical errors, but its it really lot or is it because everyone is looking for them?
The critique of people in high positions has been steadily increasing over the years to unprecedented levels, back in the day no one would dare say anything about someone in such a high position, thats the freedom we have now. Is it that he isn't intelligent, or is it that we are free to criticise him so it is believed?
I mean I am not that much of a fan of Bush but I can't belive he doesn't have ANY form of intelligence. He walks and talks, forms a sentance, functions reasonably, headed business, involved in politics, elected to President.
Even his critics admit he isn't as thick as he is made out to be.