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Comments
I don't think giving to beggars does necessarily make the problem worse.
I don't see it as an either/or situation. I'd also argue that merely putting money into treatment is no long term solution either.
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I think you missed my point somewhat. Drug problems are never going to go away while we live in an alienating, unjust and unequal society. In fact desiring oblivion through drink and drugs is an entirelu understandable response to the shit that our society puts some people through.
The problem here is the emotional blackmail aspect where you feel like your £2.50 has been wasted because you sepnt it on alcohol, rather than give it to someone "deserving". Except you miss an important point. That money helps support a business, that business will have employees, those employees will have families and bills to pay and will get paid for their work. What you are therefore doing, in part, is keeping those people away from being on the streets too.
Sure, I firmly believe that I should give to charities and do so regularly, but I also believe that I have the right to live my life too.
I did understand it, but felt it was going off-topic somewhat. I disagree however that society is responsible for drugs. There are many people with drugs and alcohol problems whom society has treated very well - its hard to claim that (to use a famous example) that someone like Ozzy Osbourne has been treated particually badly by society (or if he has I'd like to be treated so badly).
Its also a chicken and egg situation - does society fail people and they then get into drugs and alcohol problems? or is that people with drugs and alcohol problems are less likely to be able to hold down a job, be able to keep a housing tenure and are more likely to end up in fights, crime etc and end up in jail. It seems to me to be as much as the latter as the former.
Now where I would agree is that its relatively easier (and perhaps easy is the wrong word) for people who are wealthy to cope with their addictions, both it being able to fund it and to get expensive support to get them off it. but equally it seems that supportive family and friends are just as important.
I don't think if we moved to an anarchist system (and I'm assuming that's what you mean, so forgive me if I'm wrong) that they're won't be people who for whatever reason develop addictions and fall out of society and that for those that do the system will be any better.
I'm not saying they do. in fact I said that its 'easier' for wealthy people to cope. I do think that as a society we need to provide more assistance for those on the streets than for the wealthy (which isn't to say we shouldn't provide support for them as well). However the fact that wealthy people have mental problems and addictions suggests that this isn't caused by society, but more to do with personal circumstances and personality.
I agree with this.
I also think I have the right to decide where the money I work for goes. You can't support every charity, no matter how good their intentions. I give to one specific charity that is close to my heart, and a few others less regularly, and I shop in charity shops a lot of the time. That's it. I don't give to beggars and I don't give to other charities. You have to draw the line somewhere, especially if, like me, you're not on the hugest of incomes, and I have drawn it there.
Do I feel guilty about spending the rest of my money on me? Not for a second.
This is a fair point.
I'm the same. And I hate feeling guilty when beggars ask me for some spare change and I don't give it to them. (Admittedly, I don't always have loose change on me)
I'd rather volunteer my time at a local shelter coz i know they need help.
Also, about rehab clinics or whatever, what happens when they get out?
Can't get a job coz they ain't got a bank account.
Can't get a bank account coz they ain't a place to live in.
I think we need sanctuaries where people can come and get rehab/food/training/simple job/place to live, help them get their confidence up and help them get on their feet.
Your spare change is a short fix...
You should never feel guilty though about whether you can give some money or not. It's your money. You do what you want with it.
I mostly agree with that.
In addition, I think some of this goes on your own experiences. Someone here said that they give beer etc to a homeless person because that's what their friend did, whereas my friends (who were not homeless) would quite often go onto the streets to blag money, so personally I'm fairly suspicious and don't give money to any street beggars.
I absolutely have no qualms though about spending my own money on myself whilst saying I have no spare change. My change isn't "spare", it's mine. If I choose to spend it on food for myself, or set fire to it, it doesn't really matter because it's mine to use. It's never going to be for someone else to determine how I spend it because, to be honest, I work hard for it in the first place.
I think this way, too.
Which isn't to say that I'll not give someone some change if I feel like it.
How do you know the woman was homeless ?
Let me guess - taxpayers would have to pay for this?
Where exactly did i say or insinuate that?
Where else will the money come from? Or do you think that money grows on trees?:rolleyes:
Money doesn't grow on trees? :eek:
First of all, I didn't think that I had to produce a funding plan, thought we were having a discussion on an ethical question.
Secondly, the money would come through charities and foundations, from the private sector, after all donating to charity means less tax...
Being worried about the destination of the money you give out to beggars is a legitimate worry (like if they are using it for alcohol or drugs) - even though it's something I personally don't worry about. My personal opinion is that if they are asking for it, it's because they need it, what they do with that money is their business.
So, aside from the decision of giving or not giving beggars money, what do you do to help them? The solution may or may not involve giving money to them... but I think this is the real question underlying the issue. There is a need, that's for sure. Wether you give out money or not, it's still our ethical duty as a society to acknowledge those needs and do something about them. The way you help can vary a great deal (create a foundation, pay your workers fair wages, get involved in politics, volunteer, etc.).. but in the end it's about creating a society where such needs don't exist.
And what is wrong with that?
I'd have problems spending the £2.50 on a drink
Personally I'd rather put the money towards having a good meal then a drink ....
I don't tend to give money to charities etc (Unless you count the national lottery) but I do donate a lot of my time and skills for instance I did a website for an organisation and donated about 40 hours of my time plus maybe another 60 hours since just on maintaing the website.
Previous to me volunteering my services they'd been waiting 2 years for a website
I think just behaving as a decent citizen (meaning not stealing, being fair, etc) just isn't enough. The system is flawed, as it creates people with needs... therefore, more action is necessary from everyone in society. It's our own responsibility the kind of society we create. If you want things different, then get involved and change them.
Its true, beggars can make a lot of money. They often have to, to support a habit. If you're uncle's "mate" (hey, its another friend of a friend story! How reliable!) was making so much money, why were they still living in a hostel? Those places ain't nice y'know.
we have to pay for everything else?
Do you think theft is "wrong" ?
It was refused. I dont know why it was refused, but to a truly homeless person who has to beg for money to buy food and drink in order to survive; this drink would have been important
This made my mind up about giving money directly to the homeless.
You also cant tell if they are really homeless or not, there was a guy who used to hang around at the train station pretending to be homeless, i saw him collect loads of money as i was waiting for my train. A few days later i saw him on a night out, dressed well, with a group of friends getting drunk.