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A Massacre Is Announced
BillieTheBot
Posts: 8,721 Bot
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5116768.stmIsrael's prime minister has promised prolonged and extensive military action to free an Israeli soldier missing and presumed held captive in southern Gaza.
"Let it be clear: We will reach everyone, no matter where," Ehud Olmert said in a speech in Jerusalem.
Mr Olmert said he had instructed army chiefs to be ready for "a prolonged and extensive military operation in order to strike the terror organisations and commanders".
He said he held senior officials in the Palestinian Authority including Mr Abbas and Prime Minister Ismail Haniya of Hamas responsible, with "everything that it implies".
Israel has massed troops on the border with Gaza in preparation for any retaliatory operations after the dawn assault on Sunday.
How long is this going to go on for? :no:
Beep boop. I'm a bot.
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If Olmert is so concerned "to strike the terror organisations and commanders" he should start with the very institutions over which he presides which were founded upon terrorist acts by terrorist Irgun, Haganah commanders (now hailed as historic Israeli statesmen) before pointing the finger at those who are rightfully fighting back against legitimate IDF military targets.
He would do well to look up the definition of "terrorist" as well before applying it so liberally in his rhetoric (like every other Israeli leader before him). Hypocritical fascist apartheidists the lot of them.
What iinternational outcry was that? The only ones were the recent invasion in which there was nothing about massing of troops on the Saudi borders. The other was following the invasion of Kuwait, which the international outcry was about Saddam invading and unilaterally annexing Kuwait. There were fears that the Iraqis were massing on the border and that effected the deployment of troops (eg there was the immediate despatch of light airborne units to act as a tripwire and discourage Saddam from going further). But the mobilisation was due to Kuwait, not because of Iraqs peaceful military maneouvres on the border.
I've read it several times and I missed the annoucement of a massacre. Hamas are certainly denying that they have the prisoner and are calling on him to well treated by whoever has him. So it can't be him you're talking about and Israel certainly hasn't announced they're planning to massacre anyone.
Unless your defenition of a massacre is 'Doing to us, what we planned to do them'
Now, whereas a visitor from Jupiter who is not familiar with earthling affairs might be genuinely puzzled by the title of the thread, anyone who lives on planet Earth and is vaguely aware of the history and events in that area will know full well what's likely to happen.
They remember that Israel is practically unique in post-Hitler planet Earth as the country that has engaged in collective punishment against an entire population for an incredible 4 decades unmolested.
They will recall virtually thousands of incidents in which thousands of innocent men, women and children have been blown to pieces and/or shot to ribbons by Israeli forces during so-called security operations.
They will know that the Israeli army has never thought much of firing missiles into crowds or apartment blocks on the lame excuse that militants might be hiding amongst them (so in effect, it is okay to kill 30 innocents if there is a chance your man is behind them).
They will think about the tens of thousands of houses illegally bulldozed, crops destroyed and land appropriated for no good reason whatsoever.
Are you quite sure you don't understand the title of the thread? Or do you know something we don't regarding the new Israeli Prime Minister?
Now I personally I think it is fair that you demand that Israel doesn't overreact - but I think you also demand as strongly that the Palestinians ensure the treatment of captured Israeli servicemen in line with laws and practices of war and that if whatever group holding him is incapable of doing so, that the Palestinian Government fulfils its civilised obligations in respect to prisoners and makes all efforts to get hold of the prisoner and ensure the punishment of any captors who have mistreated him.
The fact remains that unless I'm wrong and this new Israeli PM is different from his precedessors (and believe me, I'd love to be wrong) if the soldier is killed or he isn't returned in the next day or two we're about to witness another Israeli 'operation' in which many dozens if not hundreds of Palestinians, a lot of them innocent civilians, will be slaughtered without any concern for the most basic rules of war.
Furthermore a lot of those deaths will be pure and simple acts of revenge on the innocent. War crimes. Nothing less.
Needless to say the deaths/imprisoment of 3 Israeli soldiers are generating international media concern tens of times higher than the far more numerous Palestinian casualties manage.
Talk about 'one-sided'...
No they get more coverage because its unusual for IDF to be captured. Jenin got more coverage than the bombings that preceeded it. The difference being is that whilst its true that Israel is reckless, it is not deliberately as a policy, targetting civilians as civilians (though individuals may do - and face punishement for doing so). Only one side in the conflict is doing that.
And I have no problems with Israel fulfilling its obnligations in respect to prisoners, including protection from ill-treatment, access to medical care. Israel certainly isn't perfect in this regard, but it scores well compared to many.
In turn I have no problems with the Palestinians attacking military targets taking prisoner captured enemy soldiers, in fact its an improvement, on their normal practice of shooting dead any injured or captured. However given the few times prisoners have been taken they haven't come home in one piece I also accept that Israel has the right to take action to secure the lives of its soldiers and civilians if the Palestinian Government is unwilling or unable to do so.
I was referring to the more general fight Israel faces against terrorism. Although generally speaking terrorism would be an apt definition for a private army/guerrilla/militant group - as far as I can see this 'military operation' against a 'military target' was not carried out by a force equivalent to the IDF. That being a Palestinian force accountable to the Palestinian people and operating with transparency and legality. That said, although it sounds strange it's somewhat refreshing for the Palestinians to target the IDF as opposed to women and children in shopping malls and civilians on the bus on their way to work. But anyway back to the point of the present worrying developments, it's in everybody's interests for Cpl Shali to be returned safely. (And I'll make a criticism of Israel here, unless they have specific intelligence as to where this soldier is and a way of rescuing him safely - I think it would probably be in the best interests of all concerned if Israel sought to negotiate his release, perhaps getting the UN involved or another third party...That said, if there's intelligence suggesting Cpl Shali is in immediate danger that might not be an option. I doubt Israel will seriously think about diplomatic methods and I think that's a possible mistake but obv without knowing further details it's hard to tell I suppose).
You keep clinging to this delusional fantasy which neither Washington, nor the governing Zionist ideological principles, nor the Sharon doctrine of "facts on the ground" (i.e. the underreported continuation of settlements and the apartheidist land grabbing wall) nor the long defunct "road map" you often spout on ignorantly about have ever or will ever intended/intend to make possible.
Most certainly no "two state" solution would ever afford Palestinians anything more than bantustan existence with no true sovereignty over their own airspace nor any viable contiguous terrain which could be recognised as wholly "independent" and self sustaining.
Time you woke up and recognised the reality of the extremist neo-colonialist enterprise the state of Israel has always been from its terroristic and ethnocidal founding to the present day. You might actually discover how utterly shallow your claimed defence of "democracy" truly is in the process.
Better go tell the folks in the Washington to burn all references to the founding fathers then.
Oh, and don't dare ever fight back should you and your loved ones and neighbours ever find yourselves forced out of your homes at gun point to live for generations in squalid refugee prisons prepared you by an invading power. Obviously the right of all peoples to fight against imposed tyranny is "terrorism".
The resident gullible and politically naive young mouthpiece for "officialdom" hath spoken! lol.
I think a third country should step in which has no interests on either side and act as an intemediary, then FORCE both sides to adhere, as Israel knows it can do fairly well what it likes.
I do.
It's just a shame me ever hoping for Palestinians to recieve fair treatment by the Israelis is misplaced hope.
"Do unto others" and all that.:( Both sides are represented by terrorists. HAMAS and the IDF are just the same thing... different branding.
Don't want more people killed, advocate a global condemnation and crackdown on Israel who began and have perpetuated this slow ethnocide by calculated ideological design.
or in the words of the Bible: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you". A lesson those who's forebears suffered so horribly have clearly refused to take to heart to their own eternal shame.
Can you not see a difference between Hamas indiscriminately targeting civilians/non-combatants: students in universities, men and women on their way to work and women and children in markets - and the IDF launching operations against terrorists/combatants? In its fight against combatants the IDF has been at times heavy-handed and innocent people have got caught up in it but the fact remains that there is a complete contrast in intention between blowing up innocent people on a bus and fighting terrorists. Israel is not perfect, Israel has made mistakes but the IDF does not as a policy kill innocent people - unlike Hamas which has taken responsibility for scores of suicide bombs. It's partly about intention, a Palestinian terrorist wakes up with the intention to kill Israelis - blow up people on a bus and is perhaps guided by some bizarre belief of 72 virgins at the end of it. An IDF soldier does not wake up in the morning with a yearning to kill innocent people...IDF soldiers are just ordinary young people like anyone on this forum.
No amount of documented atrocity, land clearnaces, erased towns and villages, wholesale slaughter and rape of even young girls by his stalwart "just like us" IDF heros will ever bring Dis to recognise his moral and political duplicty in defending it to any degree.
Just more of the same labelling of the true victims as "the terrorists" and the perpetrators as "those just trying to defend themselves". If this is an example of the future standard bearers of "democratic principle", God save us all!
Israel does exactly the same thing by different means. Firing missiles into crowds or apartment blocks and not giving a shit who they kill is the same to me as planting bombs on buses. Or do you actually believe that issuing an empty statement about 'regretting civilian casualties' and 'we were just targetting some bad terrorists hiding amongst the crowd' actually makes it different?
As well as 121 Israeli children murdered by Palestinians since September 2000 there have been 734 children murdered by the Israelis. http://www.ifamericansknew.org/
Do you really believe such incredibly high number of deaths is anything other than deliberate?
Let's not pretend revenge attacks design solely to murder any Palestinians don't take place- they do.
Even a few Israeli pilots have been known to refuse to carry out any more revenge sorties ffs.
Well if its deliberate the IDF must simply be one of the most incompetent armies in the world to have managed such low figures.
TBH I think the IDF is reckless, but that doesn't mean the Palestinians are the innocents. It may take two to tango, it also takes two to fight a war, even a low intensity one.
And I suppose the IDF though 1000 pound bombs wouldn't have an area affect and get civilians?
Yes, there is no policy. But in practice they have slaughtered civilians - more civilians than the Palestiniants have. Just because there isn't a policy doesn't mean it isn't happening.
HAMAS and IDF soldiers are like anyone on this forum. Just different influences have played upon their lives. Anyone could be a terrorist - if your homeland was invaded, your home demolished and your olive groves flattened - illegaly - and no international action was taken - you would become disillusioned (heh) with the world, and may well choose to fight in the only was you can - you have no advanced weaponary - you have your body, crudely made missiles and explosives. What is there to do - you have nothing to live for anyway, your home is gone. Your family might have tried to resist the bulldozers and perished.
Might as well go out with a bang?
That is true. But seeing as the international community has failed to do as much as lift a finger for the Palestinians in 40 years, you cannot blame them for fighting can you?
Or are they supposed to simply take it all in and allowed to be slaughtered defencelessly in the hope that one day the world will sum up the balls to stand up to Israel and its North American mentor?
Sums it up quite nicely I think. Glad I don't have to live in either of those godforsaken countries.
Far longer than that, Al. This goes back to Balfour's own admitted betrayal almost 90 years ago.
Which common sense then makes you wonder whether its a deliberate policy. Its not enough to terrorise succesfully and its too many to win international hearts and minds. Seems to me its not deliberate Israeli policy.
And as the International Community failed to do anything for the Jews for 2000 you can see why they might feel the need to take actions to defend themselves.
Good point. Unfortunately it's as true for Israel as it is for the Palestinians.
Blaming one side exclusively just encourages the other side to carry on in the belief that world opinion is on its side and victory is just around the corner. What is needed is confidence building measures for both sides, the problem is where to start when both sides so fundamentally distrust each other.
Again NQA, do try to avoid falling into the propaganda trap of conflating European Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews with ancient biblical Hebrews. One horrible atrocity in the modern era does not justify ignoring the true roots of those who both founded and continue to comprise the vast majority of Israel's citizenry.
Israel is a European colonialist era and colonialist minded imposition upon the indigenous people, language and culture of the region from its conception by Herzl in Austria in the late 19th century to the present day.
Dont even try to justify their calculated and unrelenting oppressions against Palestinians for more than half a century by trotting out the Zionist mythology of "eternal victimisation".