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Innocents branded as criminals by Home Office

In recent weeks, we have been reminded of why the Home Office is the worst run department in the government. Firstly, we discover over a thousand murderers, rapists and paedophiles weren't deported back to their home countries. Next, Charlie Clarke was sacked in a desperate move by a Prime Minister keen to hide the damage he was doing. On Thursday, we discovered the Home Office department in charge of illegal immigration (a department that never does any work, it seems) had FIVE cleaners on its payroll who were themselves, illegal immigrants. And now, just when you think it couldn't get worse, we get this.

The Mail on Sunday reported this morning: "Nearly 1,500 innocent people have been wrongly branded as criminals by the Home Office, leading to them losing jobs or being barred from taking up courses, The Mail on Sunday can reveal. In an extraordinary series of blunders, law-abiding citizens ranging from court ushers to teenage students have been labelled pornographers, thieves and violent robbers by the department's Criminal Records Bureau. The errors have led to people being refused jobs or university courses and even being threatened with the sack." >> Details here >>

So, with the Home Office having been caught up to its neck again, what do they do? Do they say sorry to the victims, and there could be thousands of them? Do they admit "yes, this is a case for not letting Crapita win any more contracts and for dismantling the Home Office empire"? No, they blame the victims for having similar names and dates of birth to convicted criminals. Not even the best sketchwriters in the world could make this up, could they?

This embarrassing, calamitous rabble that has the cheek to call itself a "government" is providing so many laughs at the moment. Were it not for the fact thousands of illegal immigrants now roam the streets, or for the fact we don't even know who's in the country and who isn't, I'd be rolling on the floor in howls of laughter. Can there now be anyone in the country who still believes our details would be safe with this lot? Can there now be anyone who believes ID cards would work? And can there now be anyone who doesn't think the Home Office needs to be torn down into several smaller ministries?

***waits for the inevitable claims that I'm stoking up fear, that I'm ranting aimlessly, that I'm not giving the government enough credit, that I don't remember how bad Thatcher was, and all the other crap that the Left throw at me on these occasions***

Over to you...
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Comments

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    "governments are crap" shocker, stop the presses!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Get over yourself SG.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Erm if they are checking for people, who have similar names and locations as known criminals who are unsuitable for work in the area being applied for, how do the govenrments know that its the wrong information, unless they spend loads of money that they dont have, money that you would again complain that they would spend

    id also like to mention that im glad that they erred on the side of caution, and stopped around 25,000 people getting jobs that their records show they are unsuitable for, as opposed to letting them have the jobs, on the off chance that they might have the wrong person
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MrG wrote:
    id also like to mention that im glad that they erred on the side of caution, and stopped around 25,000 people getting jobs that their records show they are unsuitable for, as opposed to letting them have the jobs, on the off chance that they might have the wrong person
    Okay, let's say that you decided to have a huge career change and applied to become a social worker. (unlikely scenario, I know, but bear with me) They go to the CRB to do a check, and it comes back, saying you, Gareth ****** (I won't publish your second name online) have got a conviction for armed robbery, or something, and that prevents you taking the job. I wonder whether you'd be so complacent having mistakenly been branded a criminal. Me suspects not.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Or say the Gareth with the armed robbery conviction applies to work in a bank, and they look up his details, and they think, hmm must be the good nice gareth from thesite.org

    yeh, we will let him have a job

    SG you need to realise that yes, people will get pissed off and annoyed at this, but the whole point of creating the CRB checks is to stop those people getting jobs, that have unsuitable criminal convictions for, and i think the good of stopping those bad people getting those jobs, is far greater than one person (me in the example) not getting a job
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MrG wrote:
    Or say the Gareth with the armed robbery conviction applies to work in a bank, and they look up his details, and they think, hmm must be the good nice gareth from thesite.org

    yeh, we will let him have a job
    How are they gonna know the "good nice" Gareth from TheSite.org? Do all potential employers look on here now? Is Jim V getting letters asking for references? :p
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote:
    How are they gonna know the "good nice" Gareth from TheSite.org? Do all potential employers look on here now? Is Jim V getting letters asking for references? :p

    on your exact point there, reverse it

    how on earth would they ever know someone wasnt the bad nasty gareth

    on that note, what do you recommend, scrap the CRB checks?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MrG wrote:
    id also like to mention that im glad that they erred on the side of caution, and stopped around 25,000 people getting jobs that their records show they are unsuitable for, as opposed to letting them have the jobs, on the off chance that they might have the wrong person

    I don’t see how that’s the case. If they’ve wrongly criminalised somebody for having the same name and date of birth as a criminal they’ve surely decriminalised the actual criminal? It’s unacceptable regardless, a disgusting yet classic case of civil service incompetence. Only under a Labour government is there a correlation between the size of the civil service and cock-ups, as the size of the civil service has multiplied under Labour blunders have steadily increased.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MrG wrote:
    on your exact point there, reverse it
    how on earth would they ever know someone wasnt the bad nasty gareth
    on that note, what do you recommend, scrap the CRB checks?
    Alright, let's get another example. What about David Mansfield, as named in the article? The CRB did a check on him and what turned up? Well, he wanted to work for children with learning difficulties, and the CRB wrongly identified him as a peddler of hardcore pornography, saying he had a conviction "for selling hardcore pornography in Bournemouth in 1972.". I don't know about you, but I wouldn't take that sort of slur sitting down.

    Of course, we discovered that there are some paedophiles working in schools thanks to Department for Education cock-ups earlier this year, but that's for another thread.

    Of course I don't recommend scrapping their checks. That would be ludicrous in the extreme. This simply shows incompetence from the CRB. One or two mistakes are understandable. But when the Government admits there have been at least 1500 errors they know of, (and this government can hardly be trusted with numbers at the best of times) something must be up.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    one or two mistakes out of over 9 million checks, if any agency or any charity, or any business, or any government, or anyone in this world for that matter, who can make only one or two mistakes out of 9 million occurances

    then we are greatly saved and will have solved even global warming, enabling the world to tell hell to freeze over
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Stargalaxy wrote:
    Of course I don't recommend scrapping their checks. That would be ludicrous in the extreme. This simply shows incompetence from the CRB. One or two mistakes are understandable. But when the Government admits there have been at least 1500 errors they know of, (and this government can hardly be trusted with numbers at the best of times) something must be up.

    So these checks are so flawed im going to kick up such a fuss about them, they are so flawed that they shouldnt actually be alowed to function

    But lets continue with them because someone at leasts recognises the greater good from time to time
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MrG wrote:
    one or two mistakes out of over 9 million checks, if any agency or any charity, or any business, or any government, or anyone in this world for that matter, who can make only one or two mistakes out of 9 million occurances

    then we are greatly saved and will have solved even global warming, enabling the world to tell hell to freeze over
    But what makes it even worse is the Home Office won't even admit when it does get it wrong. When someone's results come out wrongly, when they are accused of crimes they have not committed, do they apologise and say "sorry, our mistake"? No, they just give "compensation". In other words, backhanders to keep them quiet. The situation stinks. What chance is there of sorting it when the Home Office has no understanding of its responsibilities?

    I'm glad The Mail on Sunday put this on the front page today, and I hope the daily newspapers kick up a huge fuss about it too.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You dont seem to comprehend what the word compensate means

    So you are quite happy for these people not to get these "backhanders" and just give them an apology and correct the error?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MrG wrote:
    You dont seem to comprehend what the word compensate means

    So you are quite happy for these people not to get these "backhanders" and just give them an apology and correct the error?
    If you want to get pedantic, sure, let's go down that route. Onto www.dictionary.com I go... "compensation (kmpn-sshn) noun: The act of compensating or the state of being compensated. Something, such as money, given or received as payment or reparation, as for a service or loss."

    These mistakes shouldn't be happening in the first place. They should be the exception, almost unheard of. As Disillusioned notes, it's no surprise that, as the number of Home Office staff increases, the number of Home Office cock-ups also rockets.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    lets get rid of the home office then
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MrG wrote:
    lets get rid of the home office then
    Well, perhaps split it into different ministries, or maybe hand over some responsibilities. Perhaps responsibility for drugs policy can go to Health, some can go to the Constitutional Affairs Dept, maybe it's just that the Home Office is too big to work efficiently at the moment.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Thats a spot on assesment to be honest, i do think they do too much, but how would splitting the responsibilities help? im guessing it would take many years of work and many pound coins to do so, and wouldnt half cause a lot of confusion
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MrG wrote:
    Thats a spot on assesment to be honest, i do think they do too much, but how would splitting the responsibilities help? im guessing it would take many years of work and many pound coins to do so, and wouldnt half cause a lot of confusion
    I can always trust you to defend governmental failure and incompetence, can't I? :p
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote:
    I can always trust you to defend governmental failure and incompetence, can't I? :p

    end of the day im only bothered about how little money they can get away with spending, on a scheme that doesnt work, to make it into something else that probly wont work

    when they could infact buy some more nurses
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    And ID Cards are a good idea because...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    And ID Cards are a good idea because...
    Point taken. Meantime, developments...

    Says the Beeb: "The head of the Criminal Records Bureau (CRB) has apologised to a woman rejected for teaching jobs after she was wrongly said to have convictions. Emma Budd, from Maesteg, was shown to have theft convictions on a CRB check made by potential employers. Chief executive Vince Gaskell said on Monday he wished to "apologise directly" to the 19-year-old." >> Details >>

    OK, so this apology is genuine? Are we really meant to believe it has nothing to do with the fact you've been utterly shamed by the newspapers yesterday and today? Why is it they all start apologising the second the press get involved? :rolleyes:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Because they need to be seen to be contrite, even if that isn't the reality.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote:
    Perhaps responsibility for drugs policy can go to Health

    That's quite forward looking for you SG, are you suggesting that illegal drug problems are largely a health issue and not criminal justice?

    Oh, and the cleaners werent employed by the Home Office, they were contract cleaners and I'm sure if you checked half of the offices in London you'd find the same.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    bongbudda wrote:
    That's quite forward looking for you SG, are you suggesting that illegal drug problems are largely a health issue and not criminal justice?
    Fair point. I suppose some areas of policy don't belong in any one specific department anymore. It makes it all the more important that government departments communicate effectively with one another, but that's for another thread. Or when we discover the next cock-up. :p
    Oh, and the cleaners werent employed by the Home Office, they were contract cleaners and I'm sure if you checked half of the offices in London you'd find the same.
    Well, shouldn't the Home Office have checked? Didn't anyone think "oh, maybe we should check if these guys are meant to be in the country". And before anyone accuses me of racism, I think they should check this with anyone, of any skin colour or any background, just in the same way that every other company has to do.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Shouldn't they do CRB checks? :lol:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Shouldn't they do CRB checks? :lol:
    :lol: This is just beyond satire, isn't it?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote:
    Well, shouldn't the Home Office have checked? Didn't anyone think "oh, maybe we should check if these guys are meant to be in the country". And before anyone accuses me of racism, I think they should check this with anyone, of any skin colour or any background, just in the same way that every other company has to do.

    They did check, that's how they realised that they were illegal, the whole thing is a non-story, the only reason it even got to the papers is because we are in the middle of a xenophobia circle jerk at the moment.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    bongbudda wrote:
    They did check, that's how they realised that they were illegal, the whole thing is a non-story, the only reason it even got to the papers is because we are in the middle of a xenophobia circle jerk at the moment.
    Nonsense. It's because it's one of those stories that not even the best satirist could have made up. Illegal immigrants who should have been deported working for the department that was meant to deport them. You couldn't make this stuff up.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    bongbudda wrote:
    They did check, that's how they realised that they were illegal, the whole thing is a non-story, the only reason it even got to the papers is because we are in the middle of a xenophobia circle jerk at the moment.

    From a personal POV, better them than me. We've had our rough ride for this 1/4.

    But you are right, this story would have got minimal interest if it hadn't been for the multitude of stories recently - mainly involving immigration.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote:
    Nonsense. It's because it's one of those stories that not even the best satirist could have made up. Illegal immigrants who should have been deported working for the department that was meant to deport them. You couldn't make this stuff up.

    But this is the system working, illegal worker goes to work, they check them and realise - shock horror.

    Where is the story in this?
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