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Irony redefined
BillieTheBot
Posts: 8,721 Bot
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/4913938.stmCatholic group Opus Dei has asked for a disclaimer to be placed on the film of The Da Vinci Code, released next month.
The organisation said it had written to Sony Pictures executives in Japan to ask the studio to emphasise that the film was a work of fantasy.
*Ahem*
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And as for Jesus...well, we all know he got down and did the dirty with that professional whore he fell in love with!
So you're not religious, I think we all understand that now.
That the film and the book are both fictional events is already crystal clear. Movies do already carry a small disclaimer at the end of the credits regarding characters (and organisations, when applicable) being fictional.
The request by the Opus Dei that the distributors should "emphasise" it is a work of fiction is not only unnecessary and unorthodox, but also insulting.
If they believe what is said about them in the film (which incidentally is only the tip of the iceberg regarding that vile organisation) they can of course sue for libel and put the record straight.
And of course (and I guess we arrive at the "slightly offensive" bit you mention) if the Opus Dei sees fit to urge film companies to emphasise one of their products is a work of fantasy, surely they are opening themselves up to be asked the same thing regarding their publications?
I'd like to know what it is exactly the Opus Dei sees as fantasy. That Jesus was married? That the so-called Holy Grail is in fact the secret bloodline of the descendants of Jesus? If so, how is it any more fictional or unbelievable than what they claim to be true?
And, in many ways I agree with your stance about organised religion, but your rants quicky include anyone who isnt an atheist.
You confuse personal belief which can be both individually and socially very rewarding with people using The Church for purposes totally not in line with the scripture.
Having faith isnt inherantly wrong.
Are you a member of the Opus Dei or something?
I'm pretty sure the immense majority of believers couldn't give a rat's arse about films that question aspects of their religion. But I make no apologies for having a go at the minority who make such extraordinary demands as to urge others to include disclaimers about fictional events while pretending their own set of completely unproven beliefs are beyond doubt.
Especially when the beliefs in question are used to brainwash individuals and spread homophobia and fascistic authoritarianism amongst other things.
A film either good or bad on its own merits, not on whether its accurate or not. 'Titanic' wasn't bad historically (vying probably with Night to Remember as the most accurate potrayal), but I'd rather stab out my own eyes than watch it again.
On the other hand I could make a list a mile long of the historical innaccuracies with 'Zulu', but its a marvellous film
Im not as it happens, and I'm not really even religious as such, its just your sneering attitude to people who happen to believe which I find annoying.
What about people who personally beleive the Dan Brown stuff and are offended by Opus Dei and the Church claiming they are just conspiracy nuts, why is their right not to be offended more important than people who have religious belief?
I have a problem with believers who take a moral high ground and/or claim they are undeniably right and anyone who questions them is undeniably wrong.
The Opus Die is one such group. Sony Pictures should go tell them to stick the disclaimer where the sun don't shine.
There have been countless sociological and psychological studies regarding attitudes towards Opus Dei and the results have been clear, that although much is mistrust of the group, most people are merely ignorant of the facts surrounding them. That above all else is why they are hated and targetted needlessly.
Them saying they want a disclaimer making it clear that the film is purely fictional is quite understanable to me. I know if my families business was written into a film and was the centre of huge conspiracy involving murder and crime i would demand a huge massive full screen disclaimer showing that the film was fictional and that my family are not all murdering criminals!
I'm Spanish and know the Opus Dei well. Take it from me- they are the dictionary definition of evilness.
Hehe you'd think a good ole Spaniard like yourself would be an upstanding proud Catholic.
There have been one or two high profile court cases in Spain where the families of dissapeared young people- usually female- sue the Opus Dei and demand they are released back into the family. Often such youngsters have been found doing maid duties in Opus Dei headquarters or even the houses of high officials within the sect.
They are profoundly homophobic and sexist and they make Islamist extremists look like champions of women's rights.
And they have a long history of appeasement and active collaboration with Franco and the fascists of Spain. Not to mention high level inflitration at political and judiciary level in contemporary Spain, and to a lesser extent in other Catholic countries.
Make no mistake. They are truly despicable and make the mainstream Catholic Church highly desirable in comparison, even to me.
You could argue that with consumer culture... Are we not all brainwashed anyway? In to the 'us' and 'them' ideas of the world... You could argue that science is brainwashing us in to atheism.
Some faiths ask their followers to convert people and these individuals often do believe they're helping people. As sad as it is... By the way, never knew you are Spanish... How long have you been in the UK?
As for the film... I support what they say...
Whether they are monsters or saints they still deserve an accurate representation and if it is not accurate and fictional, it should be said so.
You could argue that with consumer culture... Are we not all brainwashed anyway? In to the 'us' and 'them' ideas of the world... You could argue that science is brainwashing us in to atheism.[/quote] Not a very fair comparison... not unless consumerism and atheism made you dissapear, break all contact with your family and friends, and if found tell them you'd rather stay living with your fellow cult members cleaning their houses and acting as a live-in maid because "they are my family now".
It has sometimes taken a year plus of intensive therapy to deprogram victims of the Opus Dei.
It's as nasty as brainwashing goes.
12 years.
Well if people want to do that then it's there choice? I remember a while ago reading a report in to the Moonies by Eileen Barker (I think I got the names right) that people claimed were brainwashing vulnerable people. Maybe similar research could be done on Opus Dei?
Do you have any links or sources on the brainwashing?
As for whether it is their choice, given that in most cases the youngsters in question went from being socially normal, religiously moderate (if religious at all) and loving of their families to recluses who suddendly dissapeared from their environments, cut all links with their families and moved out of their home towns and into Opus Dei centres, I think you can argue that they haven't exactly made an informed and balanced decision with a sound mind.
Not to specific cases at hand, no. Bear in mind these were cases that popped up in Spain from time to time when I was living there.
However there are lots of background info and witnesses account if you do a simple search. Some of it might not be entirely unbiased but they still depict a very accurate image of the cult:
http://www.odan.org/questionable_practices.htm
http://www.mond.at/opus.dei/opus.dei.uo.faq.html
http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/nrms/dei.html
http://www.natcath.com/NCR_Online/archives/090597/090597l.htm
http://www.geocities.com/catolicos2001/truth.htm
Maybe they are extreme and have in some cases been accused of "brainwashing" and responsible for "programming" people. But those are all written with an agenda and not as a neutral unbiased look at the group. So i shall reserve my judgement until i read something that is true and not propaganda based.
You could apply that logic to almost anything or any regime. Maybe Saddam Hussein didn't torture and kill anybody. Maybe he was a kind and benign ruler and we've all been had by the Western-controlled media.
Etc etc.
If you are not prepared to accept testimonies of ex-members who have managed to escape the grip of the cult, then what could you possibly accept?
They say there is no smoke without fire- in the case of the Opus Dei there's enough smoke to cover the entire atmosphere of Jupiter.
The cult is nasty, manipulative, mysoginist, extremist and fascist- you'd better believe that.
I'm sure a Protestant intellectual researcher who is border-line atheist or not a religious person really could examine Opus Dei with out been bias. Or at least their bias would be moderate, not blatently one sided hate statements, linking this organisation to a huge global cult-conspiracy of persecuting women, kidnapping and brainwashing based on a few statements that are not proven yet.
Maybe Aladdin you should find some proven facts before running off at the mouth like an expert when the whole thread is just your desire to show how much you hate something some people believe in.
You dont see me starting a, lets hate all Islamic fundamentalist groups because they have no reason on earth to believe anything they do, they are just wrong. If i did you would come at the thread with your usual one sided closed minded bullshit about how they are freedom fighters with a cause and not just mental psychotics bent on getting into heaven through murder and suicide all in one movement.
Facsist? WTF are you on about?
She was his wife! How dare you call the prophet wife a whore. I must burn your embassy for my religion is offended.
What more proof would anyone need??????
http://www.mond.at/opus.dei/opus.dei.uo.faq.html
But you don't need any further proof when you learn that the Opus Dei was a full collaborator and ally of the very fascist regime of Francisco Franco.
ETA: In fact, direct from Opus Dei in the FAQ
So what? The organisation itself isn't fascist.