G W Bush

Former Member

He says "ordered and caused by God. That means he thinks his God did more than put the wheels in progress, he thinks the whole thing is being guided and stage-managed by the beardy guy in the clouds.

Former Member

It's arather obvious conclusion if you think theres a great big beard in the sky causing the process of evolution in the first place. The idea that a omnipotent God could design the whole thing and not know how it was gonna turn out is a bit dim. If he knew how it was gonna all turn out and let it run, it must have his blessing. Seems pretty simple to me.

It requires a faith in God first ofc.

He's still not renouncing the evolutionary process, just giving it a creator and a purpose. I quite agree that it's utter, utter guff.

Oh and -

My God I agree with Klintock.

:thumb:

Former Member

Jones continues -

"Meanwhile, our spirits lived in a separate sphere for eons of time with our Heavenly Parents. Finally, when all was ready, independent spirits of all living things were placed in those bodies to undergo an earth experience, beginning with Adam."

I guess maybe his theories are a little too far out there to fit that neatly in with the usual definitions of creationism, intelligent design, or evolution. I just hope he doesn't come knocking on my door distributing pamphlets some Sunday morning. :eek:

Former Member

I am a bit puzzled with what this has to do with his 9/11 data.

I never, ever look at the source for credibility, only in what they say. Let's face it, this guy might have never uttered a true word in his entire life and be right about the WTC by accident. Focusing on his failures or victories in other areas really does lead us no closer to affirming/dismissing his statements on the steel or indeed anything else.

Sooting the messenger gets you nowhere.

Former Member

I haven't got the necessary degree in physics to judge how true any of what Jones says about physics is, and I don't think anybody else on here has either. I'm looking for reasons why anybody should be taking the word of Jones over all the other physicists in his field, and I'm definitely not finding any.

Former Member

I haven't got the necessary degree in physics to judge how true any of what Jones says about physics is, and I don't think anybody else on here has either. I'm looking for reasons why anybody should be taking the word of Jones over all the other physicists in his field, and I'm definitely not finding any.

The crucial issue is over whether the steel in question weakens enough for the WTC to collapse like a week old flan at the sort of temperatures these fires would have generated. The impact didn't knock it down, the wind wasn't particularly high that day and the bulk of the jet fuel was gone in a fireball.

So it must have been the fire that caused the collapse, or a demolition. No other skyscraper fire has resulted in a collapse.

So, was the temperature hot enough to weaken the steel that much?

I dunno. like you say, I am not a physicist either. And then we have to realise we are not dealing with straight facts - the temperature this type of steel weakens at and is universally agreed upon, but whether the fire could have got that hot which isn't truly known.

It's at this point where the position of the observer comes into play.

Someone who wants the 9/11 to be laid at the feet of the government can make a convincing case that it is so.

Someone whose natural inclination is to trust the government can construct a convincing argument that it was the result of the fire.

Former Member

I don't trust the United States government any more than I'd trust Gary Glitter to run a kindergarten - but that's not enough to get me to sign up to every conspiracy theory in town.

Former Member

I don't trust the United States government any more than I'd trust Gary Glitter to run a kindergarten - but that's not enough to get me to sign up to every conspiracy theory in town.

Me either.

So what we are left with from 9/11 is -

Planes fly into buildings.

Buildings fall down. (Including one that wasn't hit by a plane)

Theres nothing approaching proof for anyones set of conspiracy theories, and that includes a lot of the crap the US govt has come out with.