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Thierry Henry
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Just a passing thought.
Before Henry came to prominence at Arsenal how many of you knew who he was, had seen him play, thought he was a good, capable world footballer?
Heres why i ask. I think Arsene Wenger made Henry what he is today. I reckon if he hadnt gone to Arsenal and Arsene Wenger and had gone elsewhere he would never be the world class plaeyr he is today. To that end whatever happens come end of season [regarding all this speculation about Barca etc] i hope he remembers what Arsenal and more so Wenger did for him.
Beating Real Madrid must be one of the highlights of his career, especially at their home ground. Hopefully he can see Arsenal do have the ability to go further than they have done in the past.
Anyway. Back to my point. Did you know who Henry was & what his skills were like?
Before Henry came to prominence at Arsenal how many of you knew who he was, had seen him play, thought he was a good, capable world footballer?
Heres why i ask. I think Arsene Wenger made Henry what he is today. I reckon if he hadnt gone to Arsenal and Arsene Wenger and had gone elsewhere he would never be the world class plaeyr he is today. To that end whatever happens come end of season [regarding all this speculation about Barca etc] i hope he remembers what Arsenal and more so Wenger did for him.
Beating Real Madrid must be one of the highlights of his career, especially at their home ground. Hopefully he can see Arsenal do have the ability to go further than they have done in the past.
Anyway. Back to my point. Did you know who Henry was & what his skills were like?
Post edited by JustV on
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Comments
No
Good defences there, you see. He always struggles against those. Big time.
I doubt one victory against the worst Madrid side in years will be enough to secure him on a new contract. If he leaves, he should be grateful to Arsenal and Wenger, but Arsenal and their fans should also be grateful to him for all he's done for the club. A move to Barcelona is definitely the best option for him at this point in his career and I don't think fans could begrudge him a dream move like that.
Think I'd seen henry play before but didn't stand out as a world great like he is now.
No way should that take anything anyway from there win though. Playing at the Bernabeu with a young team missing some big players and winning is the result of our season so far.
It's the result of your season, without a shadow of a doubt. There were some top performances there. You should have them dead and buried though. But if Madrid play similar at highbury (i.e. noone tracking back to tackle) the tie is there for the taking.
Define a "good defence".
On that basis, any team Arsenal have played in Europe this season (Ajax, and Inter and Roma a couple of seasons back etc), pretty much every English Premiership team in the last six years must have a pretty dodgy defence.
Or maybe your definition of "struggle" means scoring less than eight goals a game.
Or maybe you've got the blinkers on again.
He might get a hat-trick again Southampton or Middlesborough but how many does he ever get against United/Liverpool/Chelsea (for example).
As for blinkers, I hate Shearer with a passion. Look at his record and you will see a great striker who scores against pretty much anyone. It's not my view of the person/team which is the problem, it's my view that Henry is media hype as much as skill.
They're not comparable, such different players it's untrue.
But Henry is world class, and the fact he does it at Arsenal is even more impressive. He has been the best forward in the league over the last few seasons but he still does go missing in big games. But I think that's got alot to do with the burden he has to carry by singlehandedly pulling his team through. If you saw Henry somewhere where he didn't have that burden, you'd probably see something very special.
I'm not saying that Henry isn't good. I do think he's over-rated. World class players do it in the big games too, Henry doesn't.
Define a world-class defence.
I can think of two absolute belters he's scored against MUFC at Highbury in the last few years, a belter against Chelsea in the FA Cup when he turned the defender, and I still reckon scoring multiple goals in Italy and Spain in the Champions League is the mark of a top striker.
RVN and Rooney failed miserably in the Champions League this year, and I'd assume you regard them as world class.
He also knows how to conduct himself, unlike the fat little ginger pervert and horse face.
Not sure I need to, because I didn't make any comment about world-class defenders.
I can think of two major events where I wasn't sure if he was in the French squad, I can think of a number of games - how many times has he played against United/Chelski/Liverpool etc without even threatening? - where he was largely crap.
Lets just analyse that. RVN has, I believe, the best goals per game ratio in the Competition. Ever. So yes, he's bordering on world class. Hasn't done much in Euro/World Cup tournaments yet though. The Summer will be interesting.
Rooney is still a baby FFS. Yet he's already proived he can mix it at an international tournament making more of an impact. He isn't world class yet, but it looks like he will be. Again the summer will be interesting on that score.
Like I said, Henry is a good player. But World-Class is a title bestowed too easily these days. Zidane was world class (not so now), so was Ronaldo, Rudi Voller, van Basten, Gullit and of course Pele and Maradona. They all had big performances on the biggest stages in addition to club performances...
NB Rooney has two goals today in a cup final. How many cup final goals does Henry have?
To be honest, I think if Henry has a bad/anonymous game then it's picked up on a lot more because he's usually so consistent. I've already given plenty examples of him scoring (and winning) big games against big teams. If he's not scoring, he won't be getting service because big teams can snuff out the supply a lot better.
I can't remember many finals or semi-finals that he's played in, so does scoring a hatful against the likes of Rangers and Fernahbahce really make someone world class?
And he hasn't scored at Anfield. Ever.
Scoring against Switzerland and Croatia you mean?
And until yesterday he'd gone just how many games without a goal? Henry just doesn't do that, and he doesn't go losing the plot if he does.
I take it all back. Scoring a couple against Wigan in a nothing cup final truly is the mark of a world-class striker. I do apologise.
Didn't Henry play against them too?
... and not scoring against Southampton in the Cup Final a couple of years ago makes you world class?
Look, I'm not saying that either Rooney of RvN are world class. I'm saying Henry isn't.
You seem to think that I hold the opinion because he plays for Arsenal, forgetting that I hate Shearer but would actually put him in the "world class" bracket.
It's not about who he plays for, it's about the fact that he disappears when the going gets tough. Shearer didn't and neither did anyone else I've mentioned...
You mean like when Arsenal twatted Inter 5-1 in Milan? When it counted?
I remember Henry having a stinker that night :rolleyes:
As for Rooney's goals against a poor side in a tin pot trophy, how many World Cup winner's medals does Rooney have? How many European Championship winners medals does Horseyboy have? And if I've done my maths right he's got more medals than half the ManYoo team, and they've been won with what is and was a worse team.
You don't come runner up in the world player of the year award twice, you don't get the european golden boot, football writers award and PFA players' player twice, win the world cup (joint france top scorer), the european cup (3goals), confederations cup (leading goalscorer and player of the tournament) without being world class, and I'm sure you know this.
Inter were a shite side then. It would have been similar to playing Chelsea before they became Chel$ki.
Rooney is 20 years old for fuck sake. How can you even compare? He has his whole career ahead of him. He hasn't even had the chance to play at a World cup you numpty, because he was 16 at the last one.
He's got a few medals but he is not a french legend or reknowned for being an outstanding player for his country. Players like Trezeguet always performed much better up front.
I think Henry's a class act, but it's just bitter and stupid to start comparing his medal count to Rooney's when Rooney is so young and only played at one major tournament (where he was undoubtedly one of the best players).
We're never going to agree. I could point out that the players who finished above him in the socring charts in each of those competitions were the likes of Sukor, Hernandez of Mexico and Salas, I could point out that his tally in 2002 was a breathtaking zero, I could point out that Mark Hughes has also won PFA Player twice.
I really don't disagree that Henry is good.
I just cannot accept "World Class" status, maybe I just set my definition of that a little higher than most...
I couldn't care less if RvN or Shearer score every game. They're one trick ponies. Henry is simply an extremely skilled player who has abilities most others don't possess. That is what makes him a world class player.
It is ignorant or biased to think otherwise. He would get into any club side in the world.
He's a very good finisher. Little more than that. Many a decent striker could have his tally if they played in his position for a club like Man U.
You are a clown.
Do you think you could put any old Tom, Dick or Harry there and they'd get the goals he does. His positional awareness and how he loses defenders IS world class. He's consistently called the best box player in the world. Henry and plenty others offer more outside the box but noone beats Ruud in it.
Why would AC Milan and countless other top clubs have wanted to sign him if he offers nothing more than most other strikers :rolleyes: .
Especially when the player in question cannot do much else.
With a powerful United attack force bombarding the box, all RnV has done for a great proportion of his goals is to tap the ball in after the opposition keeper just about managed to deflect a shot or dangerous cross from another United player.
In any case, funny how Henry has been the top scorer in the Premiership for 3 out of the last 4 seasons (as well as exceeding in many other skills) and is not considered by some as a world class player, and RvN has only been top scorer once with no other noticeable skills and he is supposed to be one.
By your own reasoning Henry must be 3 times bigger a world class player than RvN, judging by the two players' scoring records.
Scoring goals doesn't make you world class, but it does when you score them game in game out especially against good opposition. RvN has the best goals per game record in the Champions League of ANY player. That's the Champions League, which is generally considered the best competition on earth. You just can't argue with that! He is world class and would make any team in the world.
Nope, although the Summer may show otherwise because he was 2nd scorer in Portugal and his Champions League pratio is stunning. He just hasn't had the chance to prove himself in a World Cup yet.
It's why I think Shearer is world class. He's done it well at all levels, scored in every major tournament he's played in, including in the big games of those tournaments (against Germany twice for instance) - Maldini is another because he had perfrmed well at all levels.
Henry, for me, fades in the important games and doesn't step up to the plate often enough when it's needed. His ability and skill with a ball are impressive but mean bugger all if he can't do it against the best defences in the world. It's that which make me question his status.
Players like Rooney and Messi have the potential to get there but time will tell for them...