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Universities concerned about falling standards
BillieTheBot
Posts: 8,721 Bot
As I've got two unconditional offers so far from universities willing to take me on, this report on the BBC site grabbed my attention a lot sooner than it normally would;
"University admissions tutors and lecturers think the students they are taking in are increasingly less capable, a report suggests. Staff at 16 universities of different types were questioned for the ongoing Nuffield Review of 14 to 19 learning. Many felt students arrived from the school system with "assessment burn-out", said the report leaked to the Times Higher Education Supplement. Skills in reading, communication and thinking were worse than 10 years ago.
"There was particular concern about standards in modern foreign languages, history, maths and single sciences. The report due to be published in full later this month said some lecturers were having to postpone starting undergraduate courses so students could be brought up to speed. Recruits increasingly struggled to cope with the independent learning expected in higher education."
Click here for the story.
I personally believe the education system in this country is a disaster. The comprehensive system has failed millions of youngsters, and still condemns thousands every year to the scrap heap. Education starts too soon in this country. Not everyone is suited to start schooling at four or five. Neither is everyone suited for higher education.
I welcome this Government's modest reforms to the system, and condemn Labour MPs dogmatic attempts to vandalise these reforms. They don't go far enough for my liking - every school should be allowed to select every pupil it takes, and this persecution of grammar schools must stop.
So, what do I make of this news? Well, I don't blame students. I don't blame teachers. The system is what's to blame. Standards are falling across the board. (and no, I don't care how much criticism this gets me, it's true) It is to the UK's shame that some people who are going onto university cannot read or write properly. What chance does Britain have in an increasingly competitive global market if some graduates who end up in high-powered jobs cannot count properly? What chance does Britain have if people cannot write?
It's high time we had a government that is prepared to make real and lasting improvement to the education system of this country. Sadly, none of the parties seems ready to take on the task.
And anyone who's considering starting university in September 2010, you might not like reading this.
"University admissions tutors and lecturers think the students they are taking in are increasingly less capable, a report suggests. Staff at 16 universities of different types were questioned for the ongoing Nuffield Review of 14 to 19 learning. Many felt students arrived from the school system with "assessment burn-out", said the report leaked to the Times Higher Education Supplement. Skills in reading, communication and thinking were worse than 10 years ago.
"There was particular concern about standards in modern foreign languages, history, maths and single sciences. The report due to be published in full later this month said some lecturers were having to postpone starting undergraduate courses so students could be brought up to speed. Recruits increasingly struggled to cope with the independent learning expected in higher education."
Click here for the story.
I personally believe the education system in this country is a disaster. The comprehensive system has failed millions of youngsters, and still condemns thousands every year to the scrap heap. Education starts too soon in this country. Not everyone is suited to start schooling at four or five. Neither is everyone suited for higher education.
I welcome this Government's modest reforms to the system, and condemn Labour MPs dogmatic attempts to vandalise these reforms. They don't go far enough for my liking - every school should be allowed to select every pupil it takes, and this persecution of grammar schools must stop.
So, what do I make of this news? Well, I don't blame students. I don't blame teachers. The system is what's to blame. Standards are falling across the board. (and no, I don't care how much criticism this gets me, it's true) It is to the UK's shame that some people who are going onto university cannot read or write properly. What chance does Britain have in an increasingly competitive global market if some graduates who end up in high-powered jobs cannot count properly? What chance does Britain have if people cannot write?
It's high time we had a government that is prepared to make real and lasting improvement to the education system of this country. Sadly, none of the parties seems ready to take on the task.
And anyone who's considering starting university in September 2010, you might not like reading this.
Beep boop. I'm a bot.
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Comments
And the students that arent wanted?
I went to a grammar school and i still think the system is wrong. I even spent a year at the local comprehensive for "failing" the 12+ The eliteism is immense. The people at the comprehensive get to a point where they pride themselves on being thick. Any bright pupil is brought down to the level of the rest. That happened to my younger sister.
The elitest system makes some feel that at 12 having not got to a grammar school then its not even worth bothering anymore.
And I agree with bongbudda, what happens to those children noone wants?
Oh nice one - congratulations :thumb:
Yes, but your missing a key point - it's by design.
Originally, the first state schools were designed by the Prussians to churn out robots who obeyed orders and were scared of authority to go and work in factories or serve in the forces.
Apart from no longer beating the shit out of the kids these days, state schools still have the same basic drive - teaching total conformity/obedience and thus the preservation of hegemony is maintained. They also ingrain certain arbitary beliefs as facts for much the same reason.
i actually agree with you that people start formal schooling too young, start formal examination too early, and too many go to university when it might not be the right option for them
children who start formal schooling too earyl lose their interest in learning way too quickly so learning becoems a chore not something that interests them
but the focus on qualifications for the sake of them is mainly to blame, there's plenty of companies who want graudates to do certain jobs when someone who has an ounce of common sense could do them
well thats my take on it anyway
i dont agree with grammar schools though, and i think removal of the SATs at 14 would help a lot, and having sets after the age of 13, so kids get 2 years of secondary mixed ability teaching and then are put into ability based classes at year 9
school isn't just about passing exams, it's about learning to interact with other people etc i think some 14+ kids should be taught in college style environments also and a variety of subjects should be enforced, even if they aren't necesserily examed but just a final teachers report is kept
What I think has happened is that the skills required in the workplace have changed, and the education system hasn't been quick enough to adapt it's teaching methods. Writing essays gives you great skills to win a debate on Newsnight, and it give you a lot of knowledge, but I don't think it prepares you for work. Totally academic courses only prepare you to be another academic, or maybe get a column in the Guardian. More emphasis needs to be placed on project-based work, which involves real-world skills such as giving presentations, teamwork, writing reports. Of course the academic knowledge is valuable, but only as a backup for you're practical work. I know that in my degree, these were the modules that have given me the most skills, and the thing I would be most likely to mention at interviews with employers, and also the modules that the majority of people looked forward to. But then, of course, academic modules are cheap to run, require minimum input from the lecturers and help them sell books. :rolleyes: The fact is that very few jobs involve the kind of individual learning that writing essays teaches.
not everything in life revolves around work
The main problem with grammar schools is that the secondary modern schools where they exist sometimes have inferior facilities – and that is something that would need to be redressed were grammar schools re-introduced nationwide. Meanwhile it’s simply illogical to attempt to teach people of different abilities in the same class – it doesn’t benefit anyone; indeed it holds everybody back. I wonder if those that oppose grammar schools object think beginners to learning French should be stuck in the same class as those that already have a basic knowledge of French? I also wonder how many of the opponents to grammar schools would happily send their child to one.
you need schools to produce well rounded individuals
and the things industry say they want are contradictory, what we need is people good at what they do, but have an appreciation of other things, like i do a science degree but i still appreciate 'art' stuff
It’s quite possible to have different schools for the more able and less able without the latter being inferior, it can I believe be ensured that both types of schools have decent facilities. That kind of system exists in Germany and I hear it works well.
The idea of streaming into sets based on ability in a comprehensive system for the most part doesn’t work – timetabling it in a school is incredibly difficult and since such a system naturally translates into smaller and more classes for most schools it’s not an option because they don’t have enough classrooms or teachers. And nobody has ever said that failing the 11+ means someone is ‘crap’ - many people that don't pass do very well. Is there any evidence suggesting that students that attend a secondary modern do worse academically than students at a comprehensive? From personal experience and people that I know that’s not the case, I know of people who didn’t pass the 11+ yet got good GCSEs and then came to the grammar school I attend for Sixth Form. I know of other people who've took GCSEs and are taking A-levels at secondary moderns and are doing very well.
(I don’t know if ‘secondary modern’ is the right term or not btw but I’m using it to distinguish between comprehensive schools where state grammar schools do not exist and areas where there are grammar schools for students that pass the 11+ alongside comprehensive/secondary modern schools).
course not, but making schools more job related wont help either
children are disenchanted from learning as soon as formal schooling begins if you havent noticed
at 3/4 its all like how why to things, by the time they're 8 or 9 it all dies
id prefer it if schooling started at 7/8 not 5
They do have that system there, and by all accounts it works extremely well. There is an enormous focus in Germany on skills for work, and the majority of young adults go into Ausbildungs/Apprenticeships rather than follow the crowd into Higher Education. From the people I know currently in the middle of their apprenticeships (in everything from Event Planning to Hospitality to Farming) they would more than likely be in the middle of a degree, if they were living in the UK. While it's not pushed on them that only the cream of the crop, so to speak, can go onto Higher Education, it's also not pushed as something everyone should be aspiring to...especially if it's they're not going to end up a great deal more employable (like many recent grads I know here) which is the key factor since they have such an intensely competitive jobs market on every level - not least graduate. Not that that isn't the case here too, of course....
I agree entirely, a lot of people don't know why they are there themselves...and these are people who are three years into a degree that is supposedly setting them up for life. People I know who graduated last year are now working back in restaurants, shops and call centres and unfortunately don't seem to have any idea how to spin their degree into the professional career they'd envisioned for themselves when they enrolled. I'm loathe to say it's a waste of their time (though it is if they end up with a really bad degree because they never should've been there in the first place), because I don't think education ever is, but it does seem to me like a damn waste of money and resource if nothing ever comes of it.
when i was a kid ...there were nursery places free of charge for every kid in the land.
those who used this facility were mostly working class families who needed to drop little jimmy and get to work.
those who's mums could afford not to work didn't go to nursery.
by the age of five ...all the working class kids could tie their shoe laces add up ...knew the alphabet etc etc. the posh kids had to catch up.
to many adults are still in school instead of work.
to many people are going to uni ...what the hell are all these people going to do?
What actually is the point of SATs, apart from GCSE group setting? (which means nothing - after a few months or so, I was moved down in Maths, [This was by choice] English & Science)
We could certainly learn a lot from Germany. I certainly think it’s misleading that some people are encouraged to go to university (and consequentially get into debt) to get a vocational degree that isn’t particularly worthwhile and isn’t going to be of any significant benefit to their career – when an apprenticeship could do the same function better and not result in thousands of pounds of debt what’s happening at the moment is certainly wrong. – Yet for the government it’s a handy way of artificially keeping people out of employment for a few extra years helping the unemployment figures. And the universities that offer these courses aren’t going to mind – it’s pretty cheap to teach stuff like ‘Housing’ and ‘Leisure & Tourism’ compared to more traditional subjects.
In my eyes what they are creating is a subservient work force. If the system was creating well rounded individuals we would not have the social issues or paranoia that we do... We would not having kids comitting suicide for being bullied about their sexuality, we would not have teenagers turning to crime because nobody will listen to them when they were younger.
I'm not against schooling at all... I just don't think it's in the interest of the individual, but the economy and the elites.
But so man people are going to university these days, simply having a degree is not good enough no matter what university or grade you got (although Oxford probably looks a better degree than Luton on your CV). You need work experience, maybe voluntary experience, life experience to get a good job in most cases not just the ability to write essays and turn up to lectures. A monkey can do that.
Grammar schools for many working class people were a step out of poverty. Grammar schools have a higher quality of teaching, they don't just drill people for getting through exams. I would support re-opening thousands of grammars. The comprehensive system has failed miserably. The education system has become entangled in the "everybody must have prizes" culture. The irony is, under the current system, everyone loses. It's hard for me to make any comment about the numbers in university without attracting justified criticism at the moment, so I won't. I think my parents taught me how to tie my shoe laces. As for numbers, I learnt those from the TV guide and from looking at the VCR. It was of no thanks to the "education" system. The sad thing is, under the current system, individual learning is a privilege denied to many. That is why more selection is the way forward. Selection is not elitist. Far from it, it's the way to truly raise standards, to allow children to prosper in the system, to get a good education.
What I say to Blair and co is, stick to your guns. Let's see lots more selection in education.
ETA: why is it whenever i use an apostrophe it sticks a dash next to it.....? must be the proxy.....
The grammar school system could work, in theory, but we all know that basically its a way of making sure that middle class voters children dont have riff raff in their classroom.
Saying that, in te system we have now we have streaming in to sets... Basically labelling kids as 'smart' or 'thick', 'good' or 'bad'... and this doesn't help either.
So the 'riff raff' (meaning poor people) shouldnt go to school at all?
We seem to be going round in circles, I understand that the grammar system can help some gifted poor people, but what about the rest?
You seem to have no empathy what so ever for the large number of children you would be denying any schooling at all.