If you need urgent support, call 999 or go to your nearest A&E. To contact our Crisis Messenger (open 24/7) text THEMIX to 85258.
Read the community guidelines before posting ✨
Options
Culture + Poverty = Crime???
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
I didnt get the chance to post on Kermits earlier thread before it as locked, but i think people are missing the points that were made. It was not a case of been racist against just the Black community, it was saying that poverty is not an excuse for the statistcally high murder/drug/robbery rates that comunity has.
If poverty was a factor as often and highly as it is used an excuse for these crimes, why are there not more Asian criminals of this type? Why in London is it deffered to mostly Albanian and some Turks, who actually form a Mafia rather then street violence. Poverty i do not think by used as a catch all excuse as it is used. Though it has some effect, it is not solely responsible. It is the culture that young black people are raised in mostly, then combined with other factor.
After all, it can not JUST be the culture, as many black people grow up to not be criminals, but hard working, regular members of society like everyone else.
If poverty was a factor as often and highly as it is used an excuse for these crimes, why are there not more Asian criminals of this type? Why in London is it deffered to mostly Albanian and some Turks, who actually form a Mafia rather then street violence. Poverty i do not think by used as a catch all excuse as it is used. Though it has some effect, it is not solely responsible. It is the culture that young black people are raised in mostly, then combined with other factor.
After all, it can not JUST be the culture, as many black people grow up to not be criminals, but hard working, regular members of society like everyone else.
0
Comments
We are seeing it happen more with Whites all the time, in what is called by the media this "Chav" culture. It seems it isn't just blacks. Don't tell the Mail though.
I think in America, the easy target argument is true, they had and still have massive segregation. But in the UK? I think it is less prevelant.
The reason i limited it to Blacks, was because the other thread was on that, and i was just trying to answer it, but feel free to move beyond that.
Well I whole heartedly agree with you on that, for once.
That’s the root cause, that those of African descent have had their heritage and traditional values that would have been passed from father to son or by the community elders etc, robbed from them.
Other peoples that had the privilege to be governed by the enlightened progressive British Empire didn’t have their culture forced from them (such as India) in anything like the same way.
I think the calling black men boys things has defiantly passed, I don’t think even the most raving C18 member would say Evander Hollyfield and Colin Powel were boys not men, also back men don’t seem any more sensitive about being called boy or part of the boys, in the more general way than white men are, in the “boys out on the town” “bad boy” etc.
To use that as a reason is fine but you can’t leave it at that if there is a problem what ever the cause it should be addressed.
I think some action is what would help with government support such as bringing positive role models in from the Caribbean, Africa or America as well as of course black British people, as teachers, probation officers or some kind of community workers.
Refusing to address the issue because of the cause only makes it worse. Id be happy to see more black people speak up regarding the image portrayed by 50 cent and the like (such as Chuck D has done), although I think such things are happening.
There are plenty of white teenage scumbags as well as of all other races, but perhaps when they get a bit older they find it easier to change and society more willing to accept them and the gangs easier to leave than black ones.
I'd agree slavery also plays a big part in the propensity for criminal insurrection in the US.
And of course how the US deals with crime helps to continue the problem, arent half of young black either in prison, on probation or recently out of prison?
I think poverty is the biggest contributer of crime, I also think it depends on who ends up the victim and who the criminal is as to whether the police respond and put in an effort. I'm talking about institutionalised racism.
Something ridiculous like that. But then the prison industry is big business - as is gansta culture. Maintaining a rampant underclass is in the interests of the powerful, so it's no wonder nothing really gets done about it.
We in the UK are wondering the same way, we now lock up more people than any other Western Europe country and only Turkey and Ukraine lock up more children and young people.
I'm glad someone got the point. The moderator clearly didn't.
The black communities seem to have a big problem with violence and murder, and it isn't because they were poor and it isn't because they were horrifically abused three hundred years ago. It's too glib and too easy to say that because of racists they go and murder police officers in cold blood, and it's too glib and easy to say that because of poverty they go and stab a young man to death after he'd given them what he wanted.
Of course the white communities have problems too, so lets not go down that road either. But it doesn't seem anywhere near as bad, and it isn't as horrifically and senselessly violent.
The fact the thread got closed illustrated perfectly the point I was making, really. You cannot criticise these communities for propagating and prolonging deeply offensive views because you end up being labelled racist.
And before anyone says anything, I'm not saying black people are genetically more likely to rob and murder. I'm saying something in the black youth culture at the minute seems to be turning young men into murderers and rapists. And that fact cannot be denied. Young black men are far more likely to be involved in group rape [source, and something is obviously driving the link between gangland robbery and gangland group rape.
No, it's not because they're black. But something is driving it, and the stats can't be denied- I'd suggest a culture of lawlessness, a culture of misogyny, a culture of violence.
Agree.
Agree.
Yup, and it does no one any favours. If it was really thought all men were equal, you would allow the thought that they could be horrible bastards cross your mind and safely express it. Apologists do no one any good.
You could argue that the lower on average education means they are easier for the police to outwit and catch, and that police racism means that they will be more likely to be investigated, but nah. I am just wondering if there are any other links being looked into...it's too glib to point to culture alone, so perhaps there are links between rapists regardles of race.
I think this is an important point. The more racism is lambasted, the more racism stays in people's minds.
If people want a society where race doesn't matter...then treating racist abuse at, say, football games should be on par with abuse for a player being fat or ginger.
I find it interesting that a lot of perfectly normal, well-adjusted ethnic minorities don't have a problem with ethnic banter. They'll joke about whites, and they'll take jokes about their own ethnicity. They have no chip on their shoulder, because to them, race isn't an issue - they're beyond it all.
No - the thread was closed because of the reason ClaireBear gave at the time - there was complete generalisations taking place - talking about "generic African cultures" as you did in the last thread is questionable to say the least. What is 'generic African culture?' You're talking about people from a <i>whole </i> continent.
So surely the answer is to present that question and let the thread develop? Personally i couldn't see anything wrong with what was said either. Generalisation is sometimes necessary for debate and is sometimes perfectly valid.
Great! Can we ban all references to "americans" "british" etc as well please? I would love that, we could talk about which individuals did what where instead of using political shorthand and other bobbins.
Negative injunctions must be imagined in order to be understood. Don't think of a blue elephant, don't think of a sexy nurse, don't think of winning the lottery.......and so on.
The more emotion is in the negative injunction, the more it will stick. This is why most parents are fucking useless at getting little Timmy to behave and have to wind up doing something drastic.
Would a thread be closed for talking about a generic North American culture of ignorance, which would be a different way of wording what some people have been saying on another thread?
There were some good points on the thread that merited discussion (gangster rap music and the glorification of sexist, crime and homophobia for instance) but there was also a certain undertone to the whole thread that appear to suggest black people by nature/culture were more predisposition to crime than people of other races.
I'm sure Kermit wasn't implying that black people are more prone to crime than others, but the thread itself was walking on unpleasant ground. The fact that a certain poster fully agreed with the thread and saluted its posting should be as good indication of that as any.
I'm more than happy for the issues of certain specific sub-cultures to affect crime to be discussed but it can't be done with short-hand, it can't be done without expressly saying what you mean. If someone is saying that then it's a valid point of discussion.
But if any poster believes they have a right to imply that massively different cultures across the whole of the UK and the world are all inhierently violent - as was implied by that thread, either by accidental implication or through deliberate racism, then they will find they are not welcome here.
It isn't enough to say that 'African culture' or 'Black culture' is violent. Posters can't assume that is being read as referring to specific outlooks such as a violent rap culture. You need to say that. And if your saying all black people are inately more violent than other cultures you are being racist.
North America is one country. Africa comprises 50 odd countries. To speak of it as only having one culture is highly ignorant.
Canada?
Surely to speak of even the USA as having one culture is highly ignorant though?
Huh? Why? It's flat out obvious that it's a stupid position to take.
North America is the name of the continent. The united states of america is the name of the political entity that claims that land mass as having borders etc. To claim that either have only one culture is as ignorant as claiming that people have a culture at all.
The idea of "shared ideas" is yet more sloppy thinking bollocks. Sure it can happen, but it doesn't have to, so how do you know it has? Claiming that gangster rap has influenced some men to commit rape leads to the obvious question - has anyone actually asked these men if they do listen to gangster rap?
Answer - no. Because they all do, don't they? That's their culture.
Like the "culture" of white supremacists, you mean?
It would be ridiculous to assume or suggest, for instance, that a majority of black people are into rap music. Just as it would be ridiculous to assume a majority of white people listen to Christina Aguilera.