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Boycotts and buying ethically

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Never heard about the HIV and breast feeding... Where'd you get that from?

    Nestle are also helping to sustain military rule in Burma, who are one of the world's biggest human rights violator.

    Ok but what's not consuming their products gonna do about the whole thing.

    Boycotts, while good natured are pointless.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Does anyone have, or know where to find the list of everyint that Nestle' makes? I wouldn't mind getting ahold of it. I try to steer clear of nestle, but then i probably consume a lot i don't know about.

    I do buy organic free range eggs, i buy free range meat if i can afford it, avoid products tested on animals and i try and buy a lot of my food from the local farmers market place (which is amazing!).
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't really boycott anything, but I do try to buy British products where possible, or failing that, European. I won't buy a vastly inferior product just because it's British, but if there's not much difference between them anyway, then I'll usually go for the British/European one. But nowadays it gets more complicated because everyone is owned by someone else anyway, so you can never be sure whether your money is supporting local jobs.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Moonrat and RB

    The World Health Organization estimates the overall combined risk of HIV transmission to be 20-35% if breastfed to 6 months of age (which, incidentally, is their advice even to HIV positive women). Read about it by downloading the document I linked to.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Does anyone have, or know where to find the list of everyint that Nestle' makes? I wouldn't mind getting ahold of it. I try to steer clear of nestle, but then i probably consume a lot i don't know about.

    I do buy organic free range eggs, i buy free range meat if i can afford it, avoid products tested on animals and i try and buy a lot of my food from the local farmers market place (which is amazing!).

    Nestle make like... 8000 products or something.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Try Googling it - or every product that they manufacture should have the Nestle logo alongside the barcode and stuff...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kentish wrote:
    It's not really up for dispute. I'll find you a link.

    Never heard about Nestle and Burma... Where'd you get that from?
    Link

    Here's one...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Link

    Here's one...
    :lol:

    Have you actually bothered to look into it? For goodness' sake, in their response Nestle says it employs three people in that country.

    Do you boycott Ford because of George Bush? I think you are directing your legitimate wrath at the wrong target.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't boycott anything really. I try to buy free range eggs but it doesn't always happen. If I was well informed enough about things then I probably would, but until then I just don't know enough about it to boycott anything.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kentish wrote:
    :lol:

    Have you actually bothered to look into it? For goodness' sake, in their response Nestle says it employs three people in that country.

    Do you boycott Ford because of George Bush? I think you are directing your legitimate wrath at the wrong target.

    Actually Ford donate to human rights charities according to my lecturer.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    My main issue with Nestle to be honest is their 50% share in L'Oreal (another company I never buy from), who have (on many occasions) issued vehement denials of their finished products being tested on animals. That'd be great, except for the fact that they continue to test the active ingredients on said animals... I suppose that makes it alright, then.

    I also believe Nestle test the carcinogen level of some of its coffee on mice. I can't get behind an irresponsible company like that; regardless of how much they may (or may not) have cleaned up their act re: baby milk.

    I'm by no means perfect when it comes to buying the "right things", but I think doing your best to avoid the products of Nestle (and friends) is a good way to go.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Quick question for all those animal rights activists out there who disapprove of product testing on animals - are you happy that drugs are currently tested on animals before human trials? Or would you prefer that any unforeseen adverse side-effects are only noticed when they start killing off people?
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    SkiveSkive Posts: 15,286 Skive's The Limit
    I pretty much boycott and factory farming methods simply because i buy from the local butchers and farmers. It tastes better.
    Weekender Offender 
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Actually Ford donate to human rights charities according to my lecturer.
    And Nestle supports the Fairtrade Foundation. What's your point?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Exxon is a truly despicable corporation that should be avoided at all costs.

    So... don't fill up at Esso stations... unless you're running literally on empty and in the middle of the desert.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Is it just me or are Esso stations diminishing these days?

    It feels like Shell and BP are far more common than they used to be, whereas Esso are slowly disappearing.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I certainly hope so. :)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kentish wrote:
    And Nestle supports the Fairtrade Foundation. What's your point?
    Nestle making fairtrade coffee is a joke... So one product is fair trade? It doesn't mean that their other products don't exploit people (would like to read about Ford... I know there's a foundation set up after the death of the comany founder with 5% of profits... I don't drive and don't intend to if possible).

    Nestle violate advertising laws by misleading vulnerable and uneducated people.

    They still work within Burma, they still try and supply their milk to women thereand do business (the link is down grr but I have this ).

    If something worries UNICEF then isn't it important?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I also boycott Nestle for reasons other people have given, but it has been incredibly difficult as they own so many things that you are not instantly aware of. Whrever I can I buy fairtrade products such as coffees and chocolate and I have avoided Loreal for their reluctance to look for alternatives to animal testing. I also buy freerange eggs. I know its not much, but I feel like anything I can afford to do is a good thing. When I start earning a regular wage I intend to buy more local produce from farmers markets and farm shops.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Nestle making fairtrade coffee is a joke... So one product is fair trade? It doesn't mean that their other products don't exploit people (would like to read about Ford... I know there's a foundation set up after the death of the comany founder with 5% of profits... I don't drive and don't intend to if possible).

    Nestle violate advertising laws by misleading vulnerable and uneducated people.

    They still work within Burma, they still try and supply their milk to women thereand do business (the link is down grr but I have this ).

    If something worries UNICEF then isn't it important?
    I sympathise with the viewpoint and your ideals, but it's funny what you find out if you listen to the other side of the story isn't it. Nestle's policy. Nestle Babymilk website.

    UNICEF may well have things to say about child health in the developing world (that is their job afterall), but your link provides no detail whatsoever. And you fail to back up your assertions about Myanmar.

    ps Do you even know what the arguments against Fairtrade are?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    .
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Sorry blag I've noticed you just putting full stops in threads. What does this mean?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It means I posted something, then thought better of it and deleted it. In this case, a response to morrocon roll's childish shit stirring.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    .
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kentish wrote:
    ps Do you even know what the arguments against Fairtrade are?
    Firstly, why would people boycott nestle if they'd done nothing wrong?

    Am still looking for a better link on Burma, I did have one.

    As for arguements against fair trade... I think that perhaps some companies might realise the potential of money making from slapping a fair trade label on something and whilst the workers are treated better, allowed access to unions and better working conditions and pay, it's suspected that a lot of farmers may lose out on better wages because whilst farms and companies make money, not a great dealof it would be handed down to the workers.

    As for example textiles and certain products there's the issue of ar miles on them if they can be made in the UK.

    To name a few.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Firstly, why would people boycott nestle if they'd done nothing wrong?
    Nestle did an awful lot of despicable stuff. They did indeed market baby milk products with insufficient information, gave free samples to get them started and then started charging more than families could afford, and generally forced themselves into the market where, in reality, breastfeeding is generally perceived to be the best option.

    But that was all a long long time ago, and the people that still boycott Nestle for these reasons have just jumped on a populist bandwagon. They feel a bit better about themselves for their boycott but make absolutely no difference to Nestle.
    As for arguements against fair trade... I think that perhaps some companies might realise the potential of money making from slapping a fair trade label on something and whilst the workers are treated better, allowed access to unions and better working conditions and pay, it's suspected that a lot of farmers may lose out on better wages because whilst farms and companies make money, not a great dealof it would be handed down to the workers.
    Not really. Fairtrade has quite rigorous rules for workers' rights and pay. And yes, companies like Percol, Clipper and CafeDirect make a lot of money, but that's business and you can't on the one hand demand third world development through trade and then expect that trade to be run on charity. It's not sustainable.
    As for example textiles and certain products there's the issue of ar miles on them if they can be made in the UK.

    To name a few.
    The argument is that the inflated price or minimum guaranteed price set by the Fairtrade organisations actually increase the supply of the crop (in this case coffee) by providing an incentive for farmers of other crops to go into that market. The overall effect, therefore, is to decrease the global market price of the crop. In other words, we end up with an oversupply which has been artificially created by the price paid through Fairtrade. This oversupply would not happen in an open market.

    It's a strong argument, but of course it falls down when you consider the subsidies provided by Western governments to native farmers (e.g. sugar) which distort the market even more.

    Then again, if we argue that we should be buying more local produce, it's hard to support developing world farmers.

    It's a complex issue and there's certainly a lot more to it than refusing to buy products from one particular company.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Hrm I look at it like this... If there were a mob of people beating up a granny in the street I'd have no power to stop it directly (unless I had enough strong people on my side to break it up), but I wouldn't join in either. By not joining in, I'm not a part of what's happening at least... I' not contributing towards the damage and I think that's a reason why a lot of people boycott things.

    That and boycotts on a large enough scale do make changes, they shame companies and deprive them of a part of their market. Nothing is simple as far as ethical consumerism is concerned... Local produce is normally more environmentally friendly, but takes away trade from developing countries as you've said, if you buy Coca Cola or example you're supporting them assasinating union workers in South America, but then when you go out most bars serve Coca Cola and before Pepsico pulled out from funding Burma, you'd be fucked for a Jack and coke if you were that commited to ethical shopping.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Is it wrong for a Brit to go on holiday to Nigeria?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Personally I dont drink coke (they execute union sympethizers in their columbian plants, and use ozone depleteing refrigerants) I'm begining to avoid chocolate (even though it pains me deeply). my wardrobe (2 paints a coat and some shirts) is Union and second hand (almost entirely, getting closer) I generally dont eat much junk food, never any fast food, and I dont eat much factory farmed meat, though I do sometimes when I go to lunch during school.

    When you look at it, with corrupt capitalism, if you arent a part of the problem, you are a part of the solution. They need you, not necissarily you specifically, but you do make up a part of a market, and you can influence your friends and such (though my pals generally ignore me on this)
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