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Born Gay?
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Well here it goes, at a forum im an admin of someone posted a poll asking if people are born gay or choose to be gay. My oppinion was that you cant choose who you are attracted to and that gay people have been around as long as straight people so its hardly something people have recently started being as such.
The people who said they choose to be gay, said they wanted to hear the oppinion of a gay person. So thats what im asking, have you always felt gay? Do you think you were born this way?
I would like to stress that im not homophobic and this is purley to prove a point to people who belive you choose to be gay and not that its something you feel is who you are.
Cheers :thumb:
The people who said they choose to be gay, said they wanted to hear the oppinion of a gay person. So thats what im asking, have you always felt gay? Do you think you were born this way?
I would like to stress that im not homophobic and this is purley to prove a point to people who belive you choose to be gay and not that its something you feel is who you are.
Cheers :thumb:
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Comments
If it's chosen, it should be eliminated!
In response to the original post, sexuality isn't something that can be chosen or controlled.
You should be eliminated, how exactly do gay people affect your life in anyway?
I didn't choose to like both men and women... I wish I didn't as I feel so embarassed around the odd pretty girl and it's horrible when you fall for somebody.
I don't think people choose to be gay, why would they?
Its exactly what im trying to work out, they cant give a good reason as to why someone would choose to be gay other than because its more popular now. It just doesnt make sense, why would anyone want the hassle if they didnt have to?
In response to your question, personally i believe people are determined gay by their upbringing. we are all born the same, and then its how your brought up. For example, a boy who has rare contact with females, i believe is my likely to turn out gay or bi. Or boys who show femininty at an early age, or their parents dress them in 'girly' clothes and by them girlish type toys, may be more likely to be gay.
thats my opinion
I can see your point, however what about the very straight acting gay men? Who enjoy football, drinking and generally act like a straight man.
Or what about two brothers, one of which is gay? Why would one be gay and not the other if it had to do with there ubringing?
It may be that conditioning may have a very small part of a person being gay but it would be a very small percentage of gay people that are effected in this way. However, I do think that the majority of gay people are born with this disposition.
I am sure that most of you have heard of a condition called hermaphroditism (or the more politically correct term these days is 'intersex') where a person is born with the fully formed genatalia of BOTH sexes. The subject, apart from their genitalia, is physically and mentally sound in every other way.
Sometimes, these children are operated on at birth if the doctors decide (guess) that the baby appears to have a female or male inclination and the genitals are modified accordingly. In many cases though, a modified 'girl' grows up with feelings for other women and modified 'boys' grow up feeling something for other men. It seems in these cases, the doctors have made the wrong decision and the psychological makeup of the child was in fact the opposite to the physical modification they performed on the child. So even though, for instance, a child may be brought up as a girl with girls toys etc, the 'nature' side of the brain kicks in at puberty (if not before) and overrides the 'nurture' side.
Now, if nature can produce a visible, physical example of developmental confusion on the outside of the human body, who is to say that there are not processes at work of developmental confusion going on inside the unseen brain of a person ... where there may not be an obvious physical example of gender disorientation externally but internally their brain does not dictate in the way that their external body would suggest to the rest of society.
There is very strong evidence that sexuality is largely determined by development in the womb. Perhaps, while 'intersex' is firm external physical proof of developmental issues, we ought to consider that perhaps the developmental differences in gay people are more subtle and obviously invisible to the naked eye due to the brain being internal - but that does not mean that the differences are not there.
Homosexuality has been around since the beginning of time and if you research gay history in cultures across the world, the present prejudices seem to stem with the spread of Judaeo-Christian religon and it is this prejudice that is ingrained into the psyche of people today. But like racism, for instance, perhaps this prejudice towards gay people will diminish as society recognises that alternative sexuality is actually just a normal part of nature's rich diversity.
Ill quote you over at the forum and see what there reaction is :thumb:
All very well, but what about siblings where one is gay and one not, when they were both treated the same as children?
Hmmm...then why are gay men disproportionately camp/feminine? of course there are plenty of gays who can be described as "butch", but I've never ever met an openly gay guy who doesn't in some way appear "gay" in voice, dress sense, attitude or mannerism.
I mean...if I was presented with two groups, 10 heterosexual males and 10 homosexual males, i'd put all the money i have on being able to tell which group was homosexual by either looking or, at most, brief conversation.
And I'm not homophobic before anyone suggests it - it's just every gay guy i've met has been conspicuously effeminate and someone you would consider to be quite possibly gay if you were to casually meet them without knowing either way.
Um ... I' think I understand what you are asking here but I don't feel it contradicts what I posted. To me, sexual preference may be described as a colour range with, say, black on the one end where true 100% heterosexuals are based and then white on the other end where 100% gay men may be situated. Then there are the different shades of grey in between ...
There are some men who may be just off the black area who would consider themselves 'curious' but never have any REAL intention of a sexual relationshop with another man.
Then a bit further on, as the grey lightens, he may be casually bi-sexual and just sleep with another man only if the rare occassion arises but has no form of mental or emotional attachment.
The shade of grey in the middle, for instance, may hold those men who care neither whether their sexual partner is male or female - if they have an emotional bond, that is good enough. etc etc
What I am trying to say is that just as all of nature is diverse, so is human sexuality and perhaps there is no one right answer - but that doesn't mean because we cannot explain it, that anything else is wrong. And if nature can produce physical differences on the outside, like hermaphroditism, why should there not be unseen differences in the human brain too? And just because these people may not reach a level of physical/sexual/mental perfection that some people (like Hitler?) would aspire all humans to be, it doesn't mean that they are any less valuable members of society.
Diversity should be cherished. It's what makes the world a more interesting place.
Don't worry about him. That's our old buddy Monocrat who comes back every now and then under a new username to post a few racist/homophobic/take-your-pick remarks before he gets banned. No-one cares about him so we just find it amusing.
I think people are born gay. Because most, in fact, all gay men I've talked to say that they tried heterosexuality before they came out buy being homosexual just felt right and it felt natural. Who's to say that what feels natural isn't something you're born with? Bit of a tenous link perhaps but you get the point.
I've never been sexuality attracted to women, and since around 9 years old I've been aroused by the appearance, smell and sound of men.
probably
I didnt put that part correctly, it was ment to say have you always felt that you were gay. As in, when did it hit you that you were infact gay.
Anyway i ended up winning the argument, pretty much by just pointing out that there are gay people who grew up in all walks of life and so it wasnt something they did because of the way they were raised. I would go on further but its all sorta settled now, i just felt angry that people could be so niave about something.
Really, why would anyone choose to go through the problems a gay person encounters in there life. Im not saying its a bad thing to be gay before anyone jumps down my throat, im saying that if given the choice people would opt away from all the hassle. Im sure the gay men here when they were younger wished they had been straight, obviously its hard to think about as you cant picture sleeping with a woman but at the time it would have been a rational thought. When you were struggling to come to terms with your sexuality and how others would treat you, being attracted to females would have been something most would wish for.
Now your grown up, your glad of who you are and wouldnt change it but im just pointing out that its a hard thing to go through and nobody would pick it just for the sake of it.
Again, no smart ass comments picking apart something ive said to make it sound in some way homophobic. Ive hopefully managed to change the views of some people over at the forum im an admin at, i just found it such a stupid thought that sexuality is something you could simply choose.
Your attracted to who your body tells you, its not as simple as saying "that person will do"...
on the flip side, you can give a male embryo too much testosterone, resulting in a tendancy towards aggressive behaviour characteristics, also, there are many 'inbetween' stages ie, female children, although heterosexual, may be classed as tomboys due to them not being very 'girly' (I was one of those!!), due to the oestrogen:testosterone ratio being tipped ever so slightly in favour of testosterone.
...obviously there are more hormone pathways involved than that- but the oestrogen:testosterone ratio is the basis by which sexuality is determined.
It completely fails to account for the studies on gay men with fraternal twins (such as J.M. Bailey and R.C. Pillard, “A genetic study of male sexual orientation,” Archives of General Psychiatry, vol. 48:1089-1096, December 1991.), where there is only a slightly elevated proability of the other twin being gay (only one in 5 shared their brothers sexuality)
I think perhaps when people claim liberalisation has led to "an increase in those choosing to be gay," they are mistaking that for "an increase in those choosing not to hide that they are gay" I wish I had understood that I was gay - I "knew" what gay was, and as I had no lisp, walked without swinging my hips, and had strong wrists, I clearly wasn't gay. Perhaps things will be better now section 28 has gone
But if they are both straight, that is still a 'shared' sexuality. Do you mean that only 1 in 5 sets of twins had one being gay?
Also, by the by, 1991 is quite a long time ago ... there has been a lot of ground breaking research into sexual matters since then .. well worth investigating.
Yup. My best mate is gay, but I didn't know until he told me, aged 19. Although I'd known him since we were 12 and there had always been the odd rumour/bit of bullying from unpleasant elements in our year, having spent the best part of 6 years listening to him yabber on about Gillian Anderson, Jennifer Anniston and various girls at school, including one he went out with on & off for 2 years, I took the rumours with a pinch of salt...although for a year before he told me I wasn't 100% sure either way whether he was gay or straight, so I wasn't greatly suprised when he came out. My boyfriend thinks it's hilarious that I didn't click on to it for so long, as my friend *is* pretty camp, but I didn't ever categorise him like that; just thought he was being him. (My boyfriend also says he was so relieved when he met him, as I'd talked about him a fair bit and I think he was worried there'd been something between us, but his campness put his mind completely at rest on that one!)