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Race Riots in the UK (Brum)
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
I find it hard to believe that this isn’t the hottest topic on here I don’t think people appreciate the full significance or potential significance of this.
So I’m going to open a new Thread as I think the last one got a bit side tracked.
I might be wrong but isn’t this the first time their have been major riots between two immigrant communities, this could be the turning point the start of a lot more hostility between Black and Asian
The riots started because of a rumour that a black girl had been raped by a number of Asian men in an Asian owned black hair n beauty shop, this rumour spread by websites and pirate radio and caused a riot.
A lot of people believe it but there’s been no victim so far so it looks to me like it might just be a rumour.
The real reason is community tension and especially Black resentment of Asian owned shops selling black goods, and (allegedly) treating all Black customers as potential thieves.
Personally I think a better way to handle it would have been to try and ensure that those shops selling "black" products were owned by black people this seems to make sense to me.
Have you ever seen a Sari shop not owned by Asians, a Kilt shop not owned by Scots (even if they have an English Accent?)
It would seem to me better if Black people owned those shops that sell products exclusively used by black people ?
There is a lot of Racism on both sides; I don’t think it’s helped by Black groups advocating protest and Boycott regarding this before there’s even been a formal complaint made by the victim it would make them look foolish if none ever appears.
Have we entered a new are era of rising tensions between these two groups, is their reason justifiableand have “Community leaders” been irresponsible
??
So I’m going to open a new Thread as I think the last one got a bit side tracked.
I might be wrong but isn’t this the first time their have been major riots between two immigrant communities, this could be the turning point the start of a lot more hostility between Black and Asian
The riots started because of a rumour that a black girl had been raped by a number of Asian men in an Asian owned black hair n beauty shop, this rumour spread by websites and pirate radio and caused a riot.
A lot of people believe it but there’s been no victim so far so it looks to me like it might just be a rumour.
The real reason is community tension and especially Black resentment of Asian owned shops selling black goods, and (allegedly) treating all Black customers as potential thieves.
Personally I think a better way to handle it would have been to try and ensure that those shops selling "black" products were owned by black people this seems to make sense to me.
Have you ever seen a Sari shop not owned by Asians, a Kilt shop not owned by Scots (even if they have an English Accent?)
It would seem to me better if Black people owned those shops that sell products exclusively used by black people ?
There is a lot of Racism on both sides; I don’t think it’s helped by Black groups advocating protest and Boycott regarding this before there’s even been a formal complaint made by the victim it would make them look foolish if none ever appears.
Have we entered a new are era of rising tensions between these two groups, is their reason justifiableand have “Community leaders” been irresponsible
??
0
Comments
That's pretty ridiculous.
i'm sure there were...
But surely, if someone did rape that little girl they want to get the people who did it not the comunity at large. it's not their fault that there are some increadibly vile people in their community.
I think this is just other case of "we need someone to blame and you seem like an easy target". Communities should be coming together so to stop things like this happening in the future no matter what background you come from.
And again like some people said before, some people just turn up, see a fight and join in because they are stupid. they don't care about the reason of the fight they just want to fight. And these are the people that really need to get their heads straight. total sheep. I'm not saying that the people who commited the actuall crime don't need to be punished, because by hell they do, but i just don't get why people just want to join in a fight for the sake of it.
What does it achive??
And all these people saying that community leaders are being irresponsible, well what about people making their own minds up about what they are going to do? what happened to having morals? what happened to taking the high road and then later seaking out justice when it is the correct time too??
I think this is stupid. Whatever next? Only buy Haggis from Jock McJock. Tea from Mr Smyth?
Leaving aside the concept of 'black' is totally meaningless how on earth would you enforce this?
Close down shops run by people who werent 'black' enough?
As I said if I had to buy a Kilt, I would prefer to go to a shop owned by Scots rather than chinease, I know on one level this is wrong but isnt it natural that most people would prefer such a thing ?
The riots started because of Black perception (rightly or wrongly) of Asian business takin their money an dnot treating their customers with respect.
If black people opened a Sari shop, or a business specialising in Asian weddings, do you think Asian people would use them rather than a shop owned by asisan , I dont.
Anyway thats would be my "solution" its pretty straight forward realy.
The problem is that a lot of black people are resentfull of having to shop in asisan shops for black products, so the solution just might be to have more black people owning them seems resonable to me.
Black people have been resentfull of police attitute to them and a solution to that was to try and get more black people to join the police is that racist of just common sence ?
If its causing enough tension to boil over in a riot surely its a bit more complex than just shopping habits?
So the concept of having more Black people in the Police is meaningless is it ?
What would the Met suggest sacking white officers.
The concept of Black is meaningless so you oppose the voice newspaper, the MOBO awards and a whole host of other organistaions, as "meangless"
No need to have representive black MP's for black communities thats "meaningless" is it.
Are you now saying theres no such thing as race, well I think a lot of people would disagree with you there.
Its easy for you to say it dosnt matter your (and me) white, white people own a lot of things and dont always get treated as potential theif's.
If there were very few business owned by whites and very few senior people pollitictions, judges etc were white, dont you think you might like to see a few more ?
Or is that meaningless, perhaps youd like to go over to some black websites debating this and tell them "the notion of black is meaningless" and see what they say?
Yes it is more complex its about the divisions between the comunities, and saying shopping habits is misleading id prefer to say "the lack of economic empowerment"
Why do they, well thats my point they shouldbe arranging for there to be black stores, rather than rioting.
Which is the point.
These riots are borne out of socio-economic problems, not any "disrespect" that one community may or may not show to another.
Firstly, they scapegoat one community whilst allowing the elite- the CEOs, the ones who are really stealing their money- to get away with it. The elites have manufactured it that each community blames another one for their problems, meaning that the elite effectively divide and rule. If all the communities are squabbling amongst themselves for the scraps, then those with the real money and control can just lie back and count the cash.
Secondly, of course, the odd riots serves a useful purpose in allowing the criminal elements to underscore their position. A few beatings here and there and suddenly the shop owners know to keep their nose out, and the police are taught to keep their nose out. The Bradford riots in particular were very effective at this- the Pakistani criminality effectively made the police too scared to enter certain parts of the city, and now those areas are lawless. The same is true in Oldham, only the suicidal would walk around Werneth at night.
It is meaningless, what is 'black'? Is an Sudanese the same as someone from the DRC? Are they the same sort of 'black'?
Its rubbish, the MOBO's are a joke, as are anything which focuses on skin colour because it is meaningless.
Ive tried to be polite to you Kermit when you come with your stupid baseless attacks what would you know about it,
perhaps youd like to tell me specifically is rediculous
Do you deny that theres been rioting ? or the causes ?
No you haven't.
You delusional or something?
More than you it would seem, if you believe that local shops for local people have anything to do with it.
I've explained why I find your hysterical ranting tiresome already. Now all you are doing is starting to confirm the suspicions I already had about your, er, racial tolerance.
Exactly, in that way they are not that different from the Northern Ireland riots, you pick someone else to blame for your problems.
Polite compared to you, some of the things you say to people, newbies that you think you can get away with someone who makes a mistake and your straight in there with your nastiest most degrating remark you can make.
And what about my racial tolerence sticking your head in the sand saying what are you balck people protesting about dont you know skin colour dosnt matter, well to those rioting they did matter, thats what it was all about
Those rioting were not rioting about skin colour. Come on, it's a very easy point to grasp.
Hey, come on mate it's not like he's pointed out you are a racist shitbox or anything, is it?
There are no races. It's a man made distinction and only fuckwits treat it like it's true.
Number of riots in affluent areas during mankind's history - ZERO.
Now, do you need a map as well, or are you going to buck your ideas up?
I am being a bit throw away about it, but its a serious point, there is no 'black' because everyone is different, the whole 'black' 'white' 'yellow' banding is a man made concept which is meaningless and very damaging.
This riot is about poverty and opportunity, same as virtually every other riot in human history.
How many immigrant communities do we have in London without riots? It is not the people its the conditions.
I’m accused of being racist well the real racists are those white people who will sit here being a comfy desk and a majority white country and say the equivalent of
"these people who are rioting don’t they know race doesn’t exist they all say their rioting for racial reasons but we all know they cant be, cause race doesn’t exist, its just economic factors"
Are there people who really think race doesn’t exist so all those black people who say they’ve been discriminated against in shops are obviously lying cause "race doesn’t exist" would you have said that to South African Blacks under apartide or American Blacks during their civil rights struggle tell them well Skin colour doesn’t matter, so what are you protesting against, Oh you say you want the vote but you really don’t your just looking for someone to blame for your problems.
"skin colour doesn’t matter" oh yeah until it does.
No you wouldn’t say that, but now we live in a utopia where there’s no racism at all, all black civil rights bodies are meaningless, any attempt to have a more representative "high achievers" e.g. judges MP's etc are meaningless cause skin colour doesn’t matter.
And the rioters, why didn’t someone think of telling them that "Skin colour doesn't matter" the only way that’s true is if there’s no racism in this country
which is not true, some Asian are prejudiced against blacks some Blacks and whites are prejudiced as well.
And a group of people feel their being taken advantage of due to racial grounds, and you’ll just say "shut up don’t pretend you know full well that race doesn’t exist and skin colour doesn’t matter so just shut up and stop rioting will you"
Is there anybody who agrees with me that it might be helpful of those communities who consider them selves as such should have "economic empowerment" with in their own community ?
What about south Africa trying to encourage more ?Blacks to high level roles
Well clearly their doing the wrong thing
I do as it happens, possitive discrimination is just as offensive as any other sort, its deeply patronising and focuses on our differences (incidental skin colour) not the way's we are the same.
But that really isnt the point here.
Yes, if you asked the rioters why they are doing it, they would answer it was race, but that is a useful scapegoat, if you dealt with the housing and employment issues in the town the 'race issue' would fade quickly.
Why not? That's what Biko did, and that's why they killed him. Yo9u have missed the point totally I think. The people using force to make apartheid happen were delusional, and they used violence to get everyone else to join in their delusion.
To accept the delusion is to lose. To question the delusion, to laugh at the delusion, to treat it as the silly, optional game it really is, is to take power from it. Can you do it for everyone? Eventually, yes.
There is no freedom through lies.
Yeah, some people are racist. Hold the front page, you'll be telling me that bears shit in the woods next.
People bond around their socio-economic peers, that's not in dispute. Some people define themselves by their background, and exclude people who are not from that background. That's not in dispute either. The point is that race is no more real than any other social construct along socio-economic lines. Of course some people pre-judge and discriminate against people along socio-economic lines. Big deal, that's not what the riots were about.
You said yourself what the riots were about: "[people] stealing their money". It is nothing about wanting to kill them damn Pakistanis, it has everything to do with being economically disenfranchised, and wanting to blame somebody. You said it yourself. You actually said this yourself.
This riot has no more to do with race than any other riot in the history of the world. People riot when they are socially and economically excluded. They choose a scapegoat, whether it's the Pakistanis or the Jews or the Catholics or the ginger people, but that is all that group is- a scapegoat, a convenient target.
The whites in South Africa were not discriminating against race, they were discriminating against difference. It's the same in every conflict in the world ever- one group has the power or is perceived to have it, and the other group wants it.
Oh, and if you want to claim one homogenous "black" race, I suggest you go and look up the words "Hutu" and "Tutsi".
What’s Hysterical about it ?
I said "taking" their money as in selling them things not stealing
"The whites in South Africa were not discriminating against race"
now that’s drivel if anything is, you really don’t think they were discriminating between race just differences oh let me see what’s the difference between white people and black people is it race by any chance,
Yes some people are racist yes everyone knows that even you, so you assertion about "bears shitting in the woods" isnt a debating point is it its just another chance for you to score a cheep point with a nice little put down.
Well you admit that people are racist, and therefore doesn’t that mean that people could be "racially discriminated against" and if that’s true then you’re claiming
"Skin colour doesn't matter.
Those rioting were not rioting about skin colour. Come on, it's a very easy point to grasp"
If racism exists than "Skin colour doesn't matter" isn’t always true is it?
And if racism exists then shorly it’s just possible that people could want to protest about it is it?
"Economically disenfranchised, and wanting to blame somebody" Yes but firstly it’s a little strong to claim "wanting to blame somebody" Id say wanting to economically empower their community.
Who's economically disenfranchised then Kermit, uh is it Black people in Birmingham is it?, and if they are "economically disenfranchised" then you claim that they’ve got no rights to protest or try in any way to change this situation cause "Skin colour doesn't matter" sounds like a good way of keeping black people poorer than the average person in the country.
Where as I think that they should take the emotion that caused a riot and try to use that to own their own shops and business in their community,
I’m not going to just deny them a legitimate concern with a cheep little put down of shut up "Skin colour doesn't matter"
Skin colour matters to them it matters to racist people so therefore it matters.
And I didnt claim a homogenous "black" race but there is a Black comunity in Birmingham,
The whites in South Africa were not discriminating because of race. They were discriminating toward a race. They had the money and the power, and wanted to keep it thanks. What better way is there than locking the blacks on the other side of town?
Skin colour does not matter in this context. It is not the rationale behind discrimination, it is one way in which is manifests itself. Of course it matters to those who are being discriminated because of it, but it is not why they are being discriminated.
As for the rest of your post, you are spouting yet more ill-informed hysterical drivel.
1. There isn't a black community in Birmingham. Or anywhere else.
2. They can protest all they want. They're just protesting to the wrong people. Instead of attacking those with the money and the power- that's the rich CEOs and politicians of the world- they are fighting with each other for scraps from the table. It's understandable, but it's hopelessly misguided. They won't become financially enfranchised by fighting for scraps from the rich man's table.
That assumes that there is such a thing as a 'white' person and a 'black' person, given no decent definition can be found its clearly not possible.
And it is exactly because skin colour matters to racists that it shouldn't matter in the slightest to us. The more we make a fuss about it the more people think differences between 'races' actually exist.
Because of race or towards a race, isnt realy much of a difference its still racism, its still keeping one race seperate from another, what is the practiacl difference as to how it effects people if their descrimaniting towards or because, what was slavery ? would it have been any different if theyd been enslaved because of race rather than towards, does that distinction make it alright, Does it make any difference atall?
Well there is a loose gropuping of black people in Birmingham, with aspects of a comunity, radio stations tageted at them majority balck churches majority balck areas thses are the trappings of a comunity
And they need to protest against CEO's do they would that acheive anything
the current complaints relate to small scale shops that arnt part of big companies, these are the type of shops business that are realitivly easy to set up and can make a difference to the imediate area
"fighting for scraps from the white man's table" and you said skin colour dosnt matter, thats what their doing is it rather than trying to have ownership with in their own comunity.
Hysterical Hypocracy
The white man comment was a (Freudian) error.
There wouldn't be any issue at all in that community if they were all socially and financially enfranchised. Simple fact.
They are not, so they are fighting amongst themselves for scraps from the table. If it wasn't so tragically misguided it would be pathetic. Instead of making the rich give them some money, they're all on the floor fighting over coppers that have fallen out of trouser pockets.