ASBOs for children

Former Member

Source

What a wonderful way to teach children right from wrong... But then I'm sure they already have a good sense of right and wrong when they're six. :rolleyes: Nice to find a law that won't discriminate against kids with hidden disabilities, mental health problems or those who come from troubled backgrounds.

Heh... Yet another reason why I want to emigrate off this tiny, crappy island.

Former Member

And your answer is...?

Former Member

...addressing the underlying social problems perhaps?

Former Member

Blagsta wrote:

...addressing the underlying social problems perhaps?

But that surely would involve breaking the cycle of criminality somehow. I'm no great supporter of ASBOs generally and for kids it seems bizarre but the issue is how to stop children who would otherwise follow a path of increasing antisocial behaviour and eventual social exclusion from doing so. At some point, there must be an intervention.

How would you address the underlying social problems?

Former Member

Kentish wrote:

But that surely would involve breaking the cycle of criminality somehow. I'm no great supporter of ASBOs generally and for kids it seems bizarre but the issue is how to stop children who would otherwise follow a path of increasing antisocial behaviour and eventual social exclusion from doing so. At some point, there must be an intervention.

and an ASBO helps...how exactly?

Kentish wrote:

How would you address the underlying social problems?

Organising society for the benefit of everyone, not just a few.

Former Member

....

Former Member

Maffy wrote:

I agree with it.

For what reasons? How does it help?

Maffy wrote:

I feel that theses days at 6 years old a child knows exactly what he/she is doing.

You think 6 year olds have the self awareness of adults?

Maffy wrote:

They smoke, drink, swear its horrific!

All 6 year olds?

Maffy wrote:

Parents seem to do nothing so they grow up into teens and well,

All parents?

Maffy wrote:

i'm sure you've all read the papers and watched the news.

Yes. And?

Maffy wrote:

Babys being attacked in front of mothers, kids being beaten up and it being video recorded on phones...... its awful.

Yes, it is awful. Why do you think it happens?

Maffy wrote:

Kids need to be punished, they need to be shown that they cannot behave badly and get away with it.

What sort of punishment? What evidence do you have that it would work?

Maffy wrote:

Otherwise well...... its obvious what'll happen! Its happened!

Whats happened?

Former Member

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Former Member

Maffy wrote:

Without punishment, children feel that they can get away with anything and become worse. They need to be taught that adults are in charge, not them!

How, specifically, does an ASBO help?

Maffy wrote:

These days yes.

You're seriously comparing a 6 year old to an adult? :eek:

Maffy wrote:

Children are growing up more quickly than they used to.

I see this phrase bandied about all over the place. What does it actually mean?

Maffy wrote:

Even dolls are becoming more tarty and therefore girls want to be like them.

Examples? And why do you think that is?

Maffy wrote:

And most parents just dont care anymore.

"most parents"? Really? What evidence do you have for this?

Maffy wrote:

They have children but dont give them the stability and the punishment they need.

Who do? "most parents"?

Maffy wrote:

Kids think they can get away with it because the parents dont care because they are too drugged up.

All parents are on drugs? Eh?

Maffy wrote:

Because children think they are the authority.

Do they? All children? If so, why do you think this has happened?

Maffy wrote:

They think they can behave any way they wish because people are to afraid to punish because they think 'oh but he/she is only a kid'.....

So you think that punishing kids is the only way to teach them? :eek: I hope you don't have any kids of your own.

Maffy wrote:

Then its played on. they become more corrupt and because they want to grow up quickly,they follow teens examples because parents aren't setting them. They are too busy with their lives or work and so kids look up to the next thing that pays them attention..... teens!!

They? Who are "they"? All kids?

Maffy wrote:

Everything that is going on.

Everything? Eh? What do you mean?

Maffy wrote:

Adults being raped by gangs of youths, attacked, mugged afraid to walk out alone at night.

Blimey, where do you live? Does this happen every night?

Maffy wrote:

I have to go everywhere with my wife for she is afraid of teens and kids because of whats they do!

Your wife is afraid of children? She sounds like she needs to see a therapist.

Former Member

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Former Member

I'm trying to get you to clarify your opinion. So far we have -
ASBO's will teach children right from wrong in some unspecified way
Kids need punishment
6 year olds have the awareness of adults
all kids are out of control
all parents are on drugs (I presume you also include yourself in this)
most parents don't care
gangs of kids are raping and mugging adults every night
your wife is scared of kids (including her own I presume)


Anything else?

Former Member

Former Member

....

Former Member

Maffy wrote:

no shes not afraid of her own!

Just everyone else's then?

Maffy wrote:

never mind. i cant be arsed!

and i did not state all that you have just put at all!

So maybe you need to write more carefully then, 'cos thats what you did actually write.

Former Member

....

Former Member

Maffy, no point in arguing. Blagsta picks up on stupidity very quickly and he'll not compromise with you. It's also quite clear you're talking out of your own arse, looking at some of the stuff you said there like.

Former Member

Maffy

I'm just trying to understand your opinion. You have stated that "I have to go everywhere with my wife for she is afraid of teens and kids because of whats they do!". That implies she is scared of all children.

Look - I agree that kids need to know right from wrong, that there are terrible social problems in our society and that a lot of marketing aimed at kids is sexual and exploitative. What I'm trying to find out from you though is how you think ASBO's are going to teach right from wrong. I'm also wondering what you think the causes of our social problems are. Feckless parenting? Drugs? Or something deeper?

Former Member

Blagsta wrote:

Or something deeper?

And what are the deeper causes of social problems. Is it a class thing?

Former Member

Many and complex. Economic class certainly helps or hinders people, depending. I'd suggest that a society which values material goods over people has a lot do with it as well.

Former Member

Blagsta wrote:

Many and complex. Economic class certainly helps or hinders people, depending. I'd suggest that a society which values material goods over people has a lot do with it as well.

We can't exactly change an entire society overnight though, can we?

Former Member

Kentish wrote:

We can't exactly change an entire society overnight though, can we?

No, we can't. You're very perceptive tonight.

Former Member

One tries one's best, Blag.

Former Member

Seriously Maff - I wouldn't pick a fight with Blag otherwise he will tear you apart. I read the first page with a smile on my fact at how badly you were getting rinsed. However, with some of the stuff you came up with, anyone could have rinsed you.

Former Member

Nice to see that I have such a fierce reputation.

Now, who wants a fight? Outside, now ya cunts!

Former Member

I reckon you'd be a pussy in real life. Only joking.

Former Member

Blagsta wrote:

Nice to see that I have such a fierce reputation.

Now, who wants a fight? Outside, now ya cunts!

I'll have a fight. Bearing in mind the fact that we can't change our society overnight - what can we do in the short term to deal with antisocial behaviour?

Former Member

Kentish wrote:

I'll have a fight. Bearing in mind the fact that we can't change our society overnight - what can we do in the short term to deal with antisocial behaviour?

Can you define the "antisocial behaviour" that 6 year olds present that we have to deal with in the short term?

Perhaps if we clear what the urgent problem we need to address is, we can address it........

Former Member

freethepeeps wrote:

Can you define the "antisocial behaviour" that 6 year olds present that we have to deal with in the short term?

ASBOs are not the solution to anything, and simply set people up to fail, and don't work anyway.

But at the same time children don't receive ASBOs if they are not partaking in anti-social behaviour. Some of the ASBOs are quite ridiculous, but children throwing stones at vehicles on motorways, kicking cats down the street, throwing bricks at peoples' houses and other delightful behavioural traits need to be stopped.

I don't think ASBOs work, but most of the people who get ASBOs are littloe scrotes who deserve it anyway.

What to do about anti-social behaviour? I don't know. I don't believe it is a class issue, as plenty of rich middle-class students indulge in quite abysmal behaviour (it's lovely in town now the students are back). Which is the whole problem with ASBOs- you don't see many rich students getting them.

It is all about upbringing. If children are allowed to be above the law then they will always be above the law. If children are taught young that actions have serious consequences, then they are more likely to not terrorise old ladies.

Whilst these kids need to be looked after, perhaps its time we also spared a thought for the people who have to live near these little shits.

Former Member

I edited my posts so i can put down my thoughts properly. Sorry wasn't thinking straight yesterday. having a bad day lol.

An ASBO, should be used as a last resort. I do think up untill 16 that youths should have a curfew as most crime is done when its dark. I'm not saying that all youths are bad, it does tend to be ones of a lower class ie: single parents and non working parents seem to have the most problem children (this is only from my experience though). Alot of parents i know unfortunately, prefer to go out then spend time with their children. My wife was round a friends last week but left because she got annoyed. Her friend and her 3 year old son were talking, and the 3 year old stood there swearing and instead of correcting him, the mother just swore back and agreed with what the little boy had said. I see this alot. I've seen 6 year olds hanging around with 15 year olds. Smoking, being abusive to adults for the fun of it. One even punched my partner in the stomach during this pregnancy. We told the parents but they didn't do much.
So my wife although she will go out during the day no problem, at night she doesn't like to be alone. Its only because shes pregnant and gets worried about what will happen to the baby.
I dont think youth centres are appropriate as they attract drunken behaviour. But not enough time is spent on youths in a constructive manner.

Former Member

'anti social behaviour' is much like 'binge drinking' in that it depends on the statistical method you use as a normal behaviour

Former Member

Maffy wrote:

I do think up untill 16 that youths should have a curfew

So you think innocent people should be locked up in their house?

it does tend to be ones of a lower class ie: single parents and non working parents seem to have the most problem children

Yes, it's always those simgle mothers to blame for everything.

Do rich children always behave themselves?

not enough time is spent on youths in a constructive manner.

So what do you suggest we do then?