god

Former Member

If God exists and knows everything, how can we have free will?!

If he knows everything, then it's logical that he knows the actions of every human who's ever lived and ever will live. If God created the universe, then he essentially has predetermined everything.

Free will therefore is incompatible with the concept of an omniscient God.

Former Member

your circular argument is flawed

Former Member

but surely you can choose to accept or reject god, if there is a god then he has given you that choice and can't make it for you......so what's predetermined about that....? but alas im not looking for another religious debate just now so maybe someone else can play devil's advocate.....

Former Member

MrG wrote:

your circular argument is flawed

let's not go there, please.

Former Member

MrG wrote:

your circular argument is flawed

Uh-huh?!

Former Member

ledzipp wrote:

If God exists and knows everything, how can we have free will?!

If he knows everything, then it's logical that he knows the actions of every human who's ever lived and ever will live. If God created the universe, then he essentially has predetermined everything.

Free will therefore is incompatible with the concept of an omniscient God.

Makes no sense... Flawed... Pseudo intelligent ect

Former Member

if there is an all knowing god ...then i would pressume he knows all the possible outcomes ...all the possible chocies.
doesn't have to mean he knows the choice your going to make.

Former Member

Well imo if there is a God, I believe all he did was set the foundations for life...he can't control everything.

Former Member

in every time period ...every race and creed have had a need ...a longing ...a searching for a god.
are we anytime soon aproaching the first time in mans history where the question will have been dropped ...god discarded?

Former Member

If he knows everything, then it's logical that he knows the actions of every human who's ever lived and ever will live. If God created the universe, then he essentially has predetermined everything.

Good question. If you knew everything that would happen in the next moment, and could hold it all in your head, would the moment after that be a surprise?

Nope. So the universe is set on a fixed course and carries us along with it, because we are part of it. (This is why I actually sign up to the intelligent design idea.)

Thing is though, even if it's fixed and all set, we still don't know how things are going to turn out. So we can still have free will, even if it's actually an illusion, because it's still appearing that way from our point of view. Even is you have this thought, it's the doubt that keeps the whole thing going. Oddly enough, this is the opposite of the certainty of most religious teachings.

Former Member

You can't stop the future so there is a destiny...whether it's planned or not remains to be seen

Former Member

klintock wrote:

(This is why I actually sign up to the intelligent design idea.)

What's that entail? Personally I do believe in God, that someone rather than something started life. Even if it was little microbes. That may just be the old rigorous Catholic school upbringing though :angel:

Teh_Gerbil

MrG wrote:

your circular argument is flawed

How true.

Former Member

morrocan roll wrote:

if there is an all knowing god ...then i would pressume he knows all the possible outcomes ...all the possible chocies.
doesn't have to mean he knows the choice your going to make.

Of course it does. If he is omniscient then he does know. I see the argument as being a perfectly reasonable one.

Former Member

before this is illegal

Former Member

wheresmyplacebo wrote:

Former Member

morrocan roll wrote:

if there is an all knowing god ...then i would pressume he knows all the possible outcomes ...all the possible chocies.
doesn't have to mean he knows the choice your going to make.

He would if he knows everything.

In that sense, theists cannot possibly defend free will then!! :yes:

Former Member

I don't believe in god so the question is irrelevant

Former Member

Lord save us from yet another amateur philosopher studying for their GCSE...

:rolleyes:

Former Member

byny wrote:

I don't believe in god so the question is irrelevant

So burn in hell then.

Lord save us from yet another amateur philosopher studying for their GCSE

Oooo...bad man has spoken!!!

Former Member

black-sep wrote:

So burn in hell then.

If she doesn't believe in God, she doesn't believe in heaven, she therefore doesn't believe in hell...therefore she can't burn in hell.

Former Member

All non-believers will burn in hell. What's not to understand?

Former Member

black-sep wrote:

All non-believers will burn in hell. What's not to understand?

non believers of what? christianity, islam,judaism,church of scientology? i'm getting more confused by your nonsensicle statements.

Former Member

black-sep wrote:

All non-believers will burn in hell. What's not to understand?

All non-believers will burn in hell according to believers.
According to non-believers they won't.

Former Member

mystifymysoul wrote:

All non-believers will burn in hell according to believers.
According to non-believers they won't.

Don't pay attention to him..just realised he's monoprat.

Teh_Gerbil

black-sep wrote:

All non-believers will burn in hell. What's not to understand?

Like a White Spereratist, which is your old user, but black?

Heh.

All Non-Beleivers will be rewarded by a logical and straight thinking God, As considering the evidence, it makes logical sense NOT to bleive in God.

Former Member

According to catholics, all atheists will burn in hell and all believers will end up in heaven.

What if I say I condemn YOU to hell, what is the difference?

(this does not show my religious stand)

Former Member

The religious try to prove what they believe, the scientific believe what they can prove!

Former Member

Tyler Jacobs wrote:

The religious try to prove what they believe, the scientific believe what they can prove!

except when it comes to believing in spontanious creation from a chemical spillage.
totaly unscientific ...totaly without evidence ...totaly an act of great faith.

Former Member

morrocan roll wrote:

except when it comes to believing in spontanious creation from a chemical spillage.
totaly unscientific ...totaly without evidence ...totaly an act of great faith.

:baffled: & perplexed:

Former Member

morrocan roll wrote:

except when it comes to believing in spontanious creation from a chemical spillage.
totaly unscientific ...totaly without evidence ...totaly an act of great faith.

noone reputatable states it as fact..... theres theories more credible than others, with more evidence to back it up, and well the big bang theory has lots of evidence and lots of unanswered questions - beats a creationist idea....

anytime scientists have said "we know it all" something has popped up a year or 2 later laughing at that statement, well in a civilised way

im happyto admit wedont know it all, however, i strive to find out more and learn