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Turkey and the EU

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
in Politics & Debate
What are your opinions on this? The reason I won't post mine is because I want to see different opinions on the matter.

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Turkey has just sent a man to prison because he dared to criticize his country’s past. Not to mention the other Turkish academics, publishers and journalists who currently face prosecution or are awaiting trial in prison. (Source:http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4314933.stm)
    As it is such a stable, democratic country (apparently) perhaps they would do well to aid some of the Middle East country’s with their problems instead of adding to ours?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Can see both sides - its human rights record is not perfect. But if it wants to be a member of the EU surely that acts as an incentive for them to improve it (and bear in mind that whilst in Turkey you can be imprisoned for saying your country took part in a holocaust in Germany you can be imprisoned for denying yours was).

    At the same time a lot of the hostility to Turkey joining the EU is the 'horror' of having a non-white, Christian country join the 'exclusive' club
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Some people see it as an economic opportunity, others see it as they have a different way of life and others see it as their democracy does not fulfil the standars of the 'Copenhagen criteria'. The people lack basic rights and freedom.

    Also, Turkey lies geographically outside of europe - or some think.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Born Slippy wrote:
    Turkey has just sent a man to prison because he dared to criticize his country’s past.

    We killed a man for no appreant reason other than the fact that he lived in the wrong block of flats...

    Point taken, but I think that membership would address Turkey's problems or at least it will make them face up to them. Leaving them outside doesn't help at all.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Man Of Kent wrote:
    We killed a man for no appreant reason other than the fact that he lived in the wrong block of flats...

    Not that I want to support BS, but they are hardly comparable. He wasn't shot because he lived in the wrong flat, but because the police thought he was a suicide bomber. And bear in mid there may be a criminal prosecution if it its found that the police acted negligently (and this being Blair's Britain I'm willing to bet money that the shooters will be hung out to dry whether they acted negligently or not).

    In Turkey there's not the mitigating factor that the prosecution made a mistake. They deliberately jailed a man because he said the Armenian massacres took place (a view supported by most reputable historians).
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    Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    Turkey needs to improve it's Human Rights problems, freedoms, and so forth ALOT. They also need to stop occupying half of Cyprus Illegally.

    And let's not forget, they are not even Geographically in Europe.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    NQA wrote:
    Not that I want to support BS, but they are hardly comparable. He wasn't shot because he lived in the wrong flat, but because the police thought he was a suicide bomber. And bear in mid there may be a criminal prosecution if it its found that the police acted negligently (and this being Blair's Britain I'm willing to bet money that the shooters will be hung out to dry whether they acted negligently or not).

    In Turkey there's not the mitigating factor that the prosecution made a mistake. They deliberately jailed a man because he said the Armenian massacres took place (a view supported by most reputable historians).

    The comparison was about justice systems, BS criticised Turkey's, I'd say that ours has faults too. I'd rather be in jail than dead TBH.

    Remember, it wasn't an accidental shooting, it wasn't justice and regardless of what happens to the policemen afterwards he'll still be dead.

    Just as my example isn't indicative of our system and is an extreme, there is nothing to suggest that BS' example is anythingother than that either.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The comparison was about justice systems, BS criticised Turkey's, I'd say that ours has faults too. I'd rather be in jail than dead TBH.

    Remember, it wasn't an accidental shooting, it wasn't justice and regardless of what happens to the policemen afterwards he'll still be dead.

    Just as my example isn't indicative of our system and is an extreme, there is nothing to suggest that BS' example is anythingother than that either.

    Yes but the comparison is unjust.

    One example is of a final product and one is being investigated. Bear in mind the police may still be prosecuted - and even if he isn't that may be because when all the evidence is weighed it comes down to tragic mistakes rather than gross negligence.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    NQA wrote:
    One example is of a final product and one is being investigated.

    To be fair, we don't know that. We don't know what steps will be taken as a result of this man's incarceration.

    Besides, for our Brazillian I'd say that his death was pretty final from his POV. ;)
    Bear in mind the police may still be prosecuted - and even if he isn't that may be because when all the evidence is weighed it comes down to tragic mistakes rather than gross negligence.

    I'm confident that it was all be explained as a "traigc series of mistakes" when in reality killing an innocent man in such a fashion is negligent. IMHO.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Mmm... as far as I'm concerned, for as long as any doubt remains about Turkey's human right records, in particular their treatment of the Kurdish population, they should not be allowed to join the EU.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    10 years is a long time, think about Lithuania ten years ago and they are in the club now.

    It is an opportunity for both sides, we should start with opening trade agreements in exchange for changes to the human rights record and see how it goes.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    They should be let in because the French dont want it to happen.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    they can join as long as they implement a human rights law that gives their citizens same rights as EU ones and then are willing to form trade agreements
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The Matadore wrote:
    They should be let in because the French dont want it to happen.
    If anything it's Austria who appear to have a problem with Turkey- though I'm not entirely sure why.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    If anything it's Austria who appear to have a problem with Turkey- though I'm not entirely sure why.

    They had an election two days before the vote on this, they wanted to sound tough, they did sound tough and then when the vote came they didnt have to bother anymore because the votes in their election had already been cast.
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    Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    I still think regardless of Human Rights, they ARE illegally occupying half of an EU member country.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think one interesting thing about having turkey in the EU is that the border of the Eu will then extend all the way to Iraq!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    though I'm not entirely sure why.

    Perhaps because Austria has the largest far right/Nazi party in Europe?
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