universities to take on a post qualification application system

Former Member

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4227546.stm

i like the use the statistics where it says 45% of predicted grades are unaccurate

i prefer the pre results system personally as you have time to prepare, not a mad 3 week dash to get in under a effectively enlarged enforced clearing system

Former Member

oooh and the nus summed it up nicle

The National Union of Students fears the proposals will keep the focus on A-level results rather than other factors.

Vice-President Education Hannah Essex said: "NUS believes applicants should be assessed on their potential rather than simply grades," said vice-president Hannah Essex.

"Students' abilities often stretch beyond the grade, and we believe that a more holistic approach should be taken when assessing student ability in order to improve access for those from less traditional backgrounds."

But the Independent Schools Council broadly welcomed what was proposed.

thats the problem, and i added the bit after about what private schools think to contrast.... shows their priorities, grades before education

Former Member

It's laudible for the NUS to be more interested in potential than achievements but then it's easy to make such comments when you aren't the people who would have to implement such a policy.

How do you assess "potential" on a fiar and equitable basis, and doesn't such judgement become subjective anyway?

Former Member

To add:

I actually agree with the proposal provided that sufficient capacity is available in the short period between results being available and start of term.

I only wish the same was to be done for 11+ examinations. We had to chose my sons school this year before he had even sat the exam to assess whether he was "grammar" standards...

Former Member

I think the new system will be better - it was what I did as I applied during my gap year when I already had my A Level results and I ended up on a better course at a better university than I would have, if they had gone by my predicted grades. That said, I still had the comfort of knowing for six months which university i was going to beforehand, which there woudl not be with this.

Former Member

It's an asolutely ludicrous system, unless we start taking exams in February and getting the results in April.

Which admittedly isn't such a bad idea.

Former Member

Kermit wrote:

It's an asolutely ludicrous system, unless we start taking exams in February and getting the results in April.

Which admittedly isn't such a bad idea.

And what's an A-level student going to do from February to the summer holidays? And how do you teach a two year course in One year and a bit?

I think the system we have now is flawed but it's the most practicle one, I know some unis do it already for some courses but maybe all applicants should go to the uni for an interview to see how the person is on a one-to-one basis.

Former Member

i feel sorry for students having to apply post results. Its already a rush getting everything sorted but now having to apply and sort everything out (accomodation, student bank accounts) it really will be a mad dash and i imagine it'll cause more problems than solutions

Former Member

Its a long time since I had to worry about it, but it seems a more stressful system where you spend weeks worrying about your exam results and then another frantic few weeks ringing round universities trying to get into one.

The current system is flawed, but it seems better than the suggested

Former Member

turlough wrote:

And how do you teach a two year course in One year and a bit?

Well, if I want to sit any A-Levels now, I'm expected to do it in a single year. And I have a full-time job to do at the same time...

Former Member

Man Of Kent wrote:

Well, if I want to sit any A-Levels now, I'm expected to do it in a single year. And I have a full-time job to do at the same time...

Yes but you aren't expected to take upwards to 5 A-levels like some student choose to do.

Former Member

They are expected to, or choose to?

Sorry, I don't know the answer...

Former Member

Some students choose to do 5 A levels, usually Maths, Physics, Chemistry, Biology and something else, a part time student isn't expected to do this

Former Member

It took me much more than 3 weeks to decide where I wanted to go. Forcing people to choose where they want to spend the next 3 or 4 years of their lives is not something that should be rushed. As people have said its not just about grades for the unis anyway.

Also I knew where i wanted to go and pushed that extra bit harder to get there. If people are made to choose after where is the insentive to get people to push that extra bit to go somewhere they really want when some people im sure will just take what grades they get and go wherever they can from that.

Former Member

You start teaching sooner- so you have GCSEs in February too.

I don't like the one suggestion that previous exam performance should be taken into account as a basis for offers. I got shite GCSE results but got wonderful A'Level results- I'd have been shafted.

Former Member

Kermit wrote:

You start teaching sooner- so you have GCSEs in February too.

I don't like the one suggestion that previous exam performance should be taken into account as a basis for offers. I got shite GCSE results but got wonderful A'Level results- I'd have been shafted.

especially for something like medicine when if someone has 4As dont mean theyll make a good doctor

exam results arent the ONLY thing and for as long as they are, children will be coached to take exams

mok in most places youre expected to take 4 alevels 1st year and 4 for 2nd year if youre considering going to a nice uni

Former Member

Makes perfect sense to me. I was one of the suckers who failed to get the right grades and I think Clearing is more stressful than having 3 weeks to choose which course you would like. It also takes some stress off the application process when you are trying to revise and do coursework etc...

Presumably your teachers could still tell you your predicted grades and you could use these to draw up a short list of courses and universities you would like. Then you could have a list for better grades and a list for worse grades.

Hey presto come August you apply and get your place confirmed straight away (I guess this could be automated these days).

I wholeheartedly approve.

As for the NUS, I am assuming that the universities would still require some sort of personal statement which could also form the basis of an offer, rather than grades alone.

Former Member

Well I put it this way... When I was back in college I was having difficulties in my Classics class because other students were disruptive and because of the nature of what we were doing I was having difficulty in keeping up with the reading (I wasn't at that time diagnosed with learning difficulties) and my teacher told me not toaim very high in what university I wanted to go to as I probably wasn't very capable of getting good grades.

I took my exam and ended up with 240 UCAS points (the universities she suggested needed 80-100 points at best) and am off to university on Friday in Kingston. I don't think that teachers are reliable enough a lot of the time to judge how intelligent you are or your potential. Fortunately for me I took a year out and thus didn't have to face with the rejections of a lot of universities.

I don't think you can measure a student's potential in university to a college without the exam results.

Former Member

Kentish wrote:

Makes perfect sense to me. I was one of the suckers who failed to get the right grades and I think Clearing is more stressful than having 3 weeks to choose which course you would like. It also takes some stress off the application process when you are trying to revise and do coursework etc...

As for the NUS, I am assuming that the universities would still require some sort of personal statement which could also form the basis of an offer, rather than grades alone.

hmm that is partially your fault, when i applied through ucas i applied to mine, and universities less good than mine down to UMIST (now part of university of manchester)

the application process at the moment is alright as it is, yes grades are important but theyre not the only thing, especially at degree level

Former Member

wheresmyplacebo wrote:

hmm that is partially your fault, when i applied through ucas i applied to mine, and universities less good than mine down to UMIST (now part of university of manchester)

don't know if you got the point there.

the application process at the moment is alright as it is, yes grades are important but theyre not the only thing, especially at degree level

But what's the difference.? The only change is that predicted grades become actual grades; the rest is the same. It seems a much simpler and fairer system.

Former Member

Kentish wrote:

don't know if you got the point there.

But what's the difference.? The only change is that predicted grades become actual grades; the rest is the same. It seems a much simpler and fairer system.

it makes exam grades even more important, thats the problem, theres enough emphisis on them as it is which leads to exam training

Former Member

wheresmyplacebo wrote:

it makes exam grades even more important,

You're gonna have to explain that one to me.

Former Member

Kentish wrote:

You're gonna have to explain that one to me.

In the current system there is a lot of room for manoeuvre- a university can make an offer for a candidate they like, and still accept them even if they don't reach it. Oxbridge do this when there is someone they really want (say, a good rower/rugby player).

I don't like either proposal for as number of reasons. The emphasis on previous examination performance would concern me greatly as someone who only treached his potential at A'Levels. If that option wasn't taken, the idea of having the whole country put through clearing, instead of just the failures, is a recipe for diasaster.

People who over-achieve can apply to leave the course they applied for, and unis will generally do this.

I think this is all a stupid idea cooked up by a moron in Whitehall trying desperately to cover up some corruption scandal NuLab have gotten involved in. I wonder what it will be.