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What do you classify as 'justifying' terrorism?
BillieTheBot
Posts: 8,721 Bot
Now that Blair wants 'justifying' terrorism to be illegal, what do you think that means?
Explaining the reasons young muslims are angry? Is that justification.
And was I the only one who heard him actually say that 'explaining' terrorism shouldnt be allowed?
Explaining the reasons young muslims are angry? Is that justification.
And was I the only one who heard him actually say that 'explaining' terrorism shouldnt be allowed?
Beep boop. I'm a bot.
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I suspect that we'll say george galloway in the dock before long. Which I suspect might be the whole point of the legislation.
if you read between the lines what he is really saying is that he wants to justify state terrorism and silence all dissident voices, no room for criticism and if you disagree with him then you are either anti-english or an extremist.........or just too smart for your own good....
So not all bad then... :thumb:
If he says explain terrorism is illegal it will eb that people such as Professor Paul Wilkinson might be as much at risk as Galloway. Or Cherie Blair with her comments on Palestinian suicide bombers - though watching the loud mouth frog being carted away in handcuffs would be pretty amusing
I suspect though the legislation will be drafted in such a way as to make sure those that think its alright to murder a Northern Irish policeman in front of his children or shoot up a pub because people are watching the Republic of Ireland play football will not find themselves in the dock.
Coupled with the exclusion zone by Parliament, and ID cards, and dispersal orders, CCTV and ASBOs, this country is sliding down a very steep and slippery slope towads totalitarianism. Police shoot dead innocent people and get commended for it- that's just the beginning.
Democracy (abysmal as it is in this country) is dying on its knees. And nobody seems to care.
Add to that the distinctions between saying stuff outright and doing the whole "allegedly" bit, quoting other people etc etc and it's a showpiece law.
Look we ARE doing something!! But not much.
Just like it's ok for Nick Griffin to say "If I were to say to you that all black people should be shot and buried I would be guilty of a criminal offence" etc etc
They will have to modifiy their language a bit and start talking like lawyers, that's all.
What concerns me is the lightening speed at which our free speach is going and any right to trial seems on its way out and the deportation of anyone vaguely dark of face.
How on Earth are we supposed to trust the Algerians to look after prisoners!?!
Or indeed, the actions of an Allied fighter pilot dropping 2,000lb bombs on Iraqi civilians?
No prizes offered for the answer... :rolleyes:
"Government good"
"Terrorist bad"
:rolleyes:
The two cannot be compared. If you’re seriously attempting to equate Palestinian suicide bombers with IDF soldiers you’re a very sick individual. Somebody blowing themselves up in a restaurant, on a bus or in a shopping mall murdering scores of innocent civilians – men, women and children is very different to anything the IDF has ever done. As has been said before a Palestinian suicide bomber’s sole aim is bloodshed; their aim is to kill as many people as possible. The IDF’s aims are protection and defence. If you really can’t differentiate between the two you have something wrong with you.
yes...two different situations altogether, the Palestinians use their bodies whereas the IDF use high tech guns and aircraft missiles.
theyre both using what means are available to them of delivering destruction, i can understand what would drive someone to do what both sides do, no wait the IDF are conscripted
It depends what the Government want to do. Eliminate opposition by branding those who stand against the new laws as justifying terrorism, or actually get rid of extremist preachers only?
Now do you see why it's a big thing?
Now do you see why nobody reported it?
Just a few of the 'protective and defensive' actions perpetrated by the IDF:
- Illegally occupation other people's land for nearly 40 years
- Subjecting said people to collective punishment such as water, electricity and movement restriction.
- Illegal imprisonment without charge of innocent youths for up to months at a time, only to be released without a word of explanation and often re-arrested again. As a result countless young men cannot go to university or hold a full time job
- Countless cases of unlawful killings and murders, including (but not exclusive to) summary executions during house-to-house raids, shooting of unarmed protestors, shooting of schoolchildren, revenge bombardments and missile attacks into crowds or blocks of apartments, total disregard for human lives
- Uprooting of vines and destruction of crops
- Mass bulldozing of houses (sometimes without bothering to warn their occupants
- Complicity in the mass slaughter of at least a thousand civilians, most of them women, children and the elderly 21 years ago.
I could go on...
Now would you tell me how exactly any of the above constitutes protective and defensive measures?
You are right Disillusioned. Palestinian suicide bombers cannot be compared to the IDF. The IDF (and of course successive Israeli governments who control it) are infinitely worse than suicide bombers could ever hope to be.
No.
Palestinian terrorists/suicide bombers aim to deliberately create mass bloodshed; their desire is to kill as many innocent people as possible. That’s not the aim of an IDF soldier, when he/she wakes up in the morning he/she doesn’t go out with a desire to kill innocent Palestinians. I doubt even Palestinians kids who have gone through the routine anti-Israel/anti-Semitic indoctrination and brainwashing of Palestinian schools would make such a suggestion.
Simply put the IDF do not seek to kill innocent people. Palestinian terrorists do. In their actions the IDF’s primary aim is to defend and protect Israel – harming innocent people is neither an aim of the IDF nor the State of Israel. Granted, there have been very rare and isolated incidents of individual IDF soldiers abusing their position to unduly harm innocent Palestinians. They’re infrequent however and IDF soldiers are accountable; investigations and punishment often follow in such cases. I'm surprised that you seem unable to make such a simple distinction.
I rather think their aim is similar as those who act get some gypsies off "their" land.
No, their aim is to keep control of what they have taken by force.
How about this then. When you are killing people, it really doesn't matter why. You are in the wrong. End of. I think both parties are in the wrong.
i'm sorry what a load of bollocks, you think suicide bombers have some crazy bloodthirst, it's really not like that at all........if people are being driven to blow themselves up there must be something seriously wrong........that something in this case is Israel.........they are desperate, you are in no position to pass moral judgement because you havent been subjected to what they have, for decades........so stop talking crap please..........they don't desire to kill innocent people, they desire to end the occupation, unfortunately the PLO are a bunch of corrupt wankers so they don't have much choice.......
The most common profile of suicide bombers is middle class, disillusioned, sexually unsuccesful and emotionally unstable.
Your average desperate, downtrodden Palestinian is far more likely to pick up an AK47 and fight for real and for his country rather than for the reward of 72 virgins in heaven.
I very much suspect that Palestinian kids who have seen their father and elder brother shot dead, their crops stamped on and their house bulldozed would beg to disagree with you. Without the help of any alledged 'brainwashing'
I'll ask you again: how any of the acts I mentioned in my previous post have anything to do with defending and protecting Israel?
Where do you get your news?
forgive me if i don't agree with your profiling..........palestinian suicide bombers are typically middle class?
Daft idea suicide boming though. Why not just shoot a bunch of israeli soldiers?
Not my profiling......
You think the Palestinians don't have a middle class?
I'm bored of everyone blaming someone and yet rarely pointing out that both sides could do with having their backsides smaked and being made to sit on the "naughty step".
The IDF will use force all the while that terrorist kill their families at the bus stop. The terrorists will kill at bus stops all the while the IDF occupy "their" land.
Until one side backs down, completely, nothing will change.
IMHO That needs to be the Palestinians.
Not because they are in "the wrong", but because the pressure this would put on Israel would be immense. Even the US would find it difficult to support them at that point...
Normally I don't even get into debates on the issue - just thought I'd mention the suicide bomber profile thing.
You're right though. Responsibility needs to be taken on both sides.
Personally I view the Israel/Palestine situation as a sideshow. There are much worse things going on in the world and you won't hear a peep about them.
It’s incredibly one-sided to not recognise Israel’s genuine right to defend itself. Some people here are unable to recognise the constant Jewish presence in the region throughout history as well as the historic connection to Israel of the Jewish people.
The UN 1947 Partition Plan divided the territory into two states one Jewish and one Arab. The rejection of this plan by the Palestinians, urged by the Arabs and the subsequent 1948 War is the cause of the Palestinian refugee problem. As the Arabs urged the Palestinians to fight rather than live in peace and accept the plan it’s a shame that the Arabs have never accommodated the refugees. After all they do have over 99.9% of the Middle East.
I know people here don’t like Israel but it’s a lie that Israel is responsible for all of the present problems. Israel has always wanted peace and has been willing to make big concessions only to be constantly turned down by the Arabs and Palestinians. I accept Israel could do more but they’ve certainly done more than anyone else so far.
The solution is for both sides to stop being pricks and get along. Why does religion manage to fuck everything up?
There is definitely a disproportionate amount of coverage given to this conflict. Any of Israel’s wrongdoings look incredibly trivial when compared to countless other nations. The double standards of many is astounding, look at the EU for instance. The first to criticise Israel yet many within it the first to embrace China now it seems. Wonder why they care about the Palestinians but not Tibet.
Or Sudan? Per head the UN has more of it’s people in Palestinian areas than anywhere else in the world. I wonder why. Why not Sudan? Why not Tibet? Do the people there not matter?
Out of all of the countries in the world, many with far greater abuses than what we see in Israel time and time again people highlight Israel. Out of all those countries the country they pick on just happens to be the world’s only Jewish one.
I agree, except that the world is only made up of individuals, of course.
Apart from the fact that "israel" "jewish" are both horseshit, you are still talking about the indefensible killing, threatening and other use of force on human beings. Again, totally indefensible.
And i just wrote on a piece of paper that it's now also divided into a new, seperate area called legoland. Aside from being a danish invention, the people of lego have a long and proud history which i just invented from scratch to justify the coming atrocities. :rolleyes:
Err, no it's the willingness of some people to use bullets to get their way that's the problem.
Like they want to be refugees? Perhas you are being deliberately obtuse. Mind, they could all move to Nebraska, lovely countryside in places and hardly a person there so no problem setting up.
Well I am a bit different in that I don't think it exists, but you are quite right, "israel" isn't responsible for jack pack. individuals are. they should be judged on that basis alone.