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This has NOTHING to do with interest rates though, it has to do with the government properly funding university.
To say that students don't have to pay any interest is a total fallacy. I'm now paying 10% to pay off university debts.
hmm if money is the incentive to do that onerous task, then why aren't binmen paid a kingly wage?
Could it be the other way around? That they will lose if they don't? Oh wait..yes it is..which is what the monetary system is designed to do, to make men and women do things that they normally wouldn't and that they know for a fact to be against their own interests, unpleasant or whatever.
Regardless, I think you are wrong, I think you would have volunteers for every job that needed doing.
Well on this side track you have my agreement, and actually it very much irritates me that the Scots, who basically sponge off the South East get free Uni when we dont.
And I'll give you the same answer. I don't support student loans/grants - I think education should be free.
However, at the same time that still doesn't change my initial point - you do not need to borrow.
Exactly.
The bins would need to be emptied so the house didn't smell. I'd quite happily do it myself if I could avoid paying the thieving council nearly a grand.
Nah, that's a simplification. It goes much deeper than that. You're right in a way of course. The bin-men do have something to lose by not doing that job. They can live off benefits and have practically nothing (although enough to eat and a roof over their heads - and frankly, does the world owe you anymore than that?) - but being a binman (no offense to anyone doing it) does not require years of hard work in education merely to get the job and it doesn't carry huge responsibility once you do. If it did require both of those things AND was an unpleasant task then it would be highly paid.
But as we have a large pool of people capable of doing the job and wanting to do A job, they don't need to be paid a lot.
Fair enough Kermit, you'd empty your own bins. You'd also have to empty your neighbours bins because he's housebound...and also the fella on the other side of the road because he's bone-idle. At what stage are you going to feel like you're being taken for a ride?
You would take your own rubbish to the tip once a week? And then maybe you would opperate the tip too because the council wouldn't be getting any money.
I'm sure there's someone out there whose heart's desire is to run a tip.
Whether they'd be competent to do so is another matter of course.
Do you think everything should be free ? What about food ? Shelter ?
seeker
Does "the world"(?) owe you THAT much ?
seeker
No
Anything (other than education) ?
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That`s education and health........for starters.Maybe a list is called for? However when that list is exhausted,I foresee a conumdrum.
WHO is going to provide all this "free" stuff ?? :chin:
Eureka,I may have the answer.Ethical banking.Perhaps there would be an "education banker" or a "health banker",for example, who could create the "free" stuff out of thin air like credit ?
seeker
Interesting.....
Do you really think that anything can ever cost? Where did you get that idea from I wonder?
I thought that was putting it in a very complicated fashion.
As we burn and destroy and chuck away tons of food that doesn't matter much. Why do you think that a roof over you head needs to cost anything. Once it's built it'll shelter anyone under it. Rooves are good like that, they aren't fooled by language.
Neither does any other job. Education is there as one way to restrict access to certain jobs and artificially increase their value as much as anything. If you want to go and do a job, print a piece of paper saying you are competent and if you are there will never be a problem.
Not at all. "market forces" are engineered by men. On the other hand you could set up a royal college of refuse collectors, require a licence on pain of incarceration for doing it and start glamourising it on TV and hike the wages for doing it.
what would be the incentive for people to make goods if they didnt have a cost on them...in this day and age of consumerism and capitalism of course, not some airy fairy utopian world?
I am sorry you lost me. The idea that things are even able to have a cost is just that - an idea. The idea that you can do things for an incentive is just that - an idea. Consumerism - an idea - capitalism - an idea.
Basically the things you are taking as facts I am am taking as optional and arbitary beliefs. So, where did you get those idea from I wonder..?
Btw, you are the one in the ivory tower with the myths, not me.
Yes
i didn't necessarily say i believed things have a cost, i know in reality they are arbitary beliefs, i'm just saying that in todays day and age, the majority of people believe there is a such thing as cost, a such thing as consumerism and capitalism and that is the reality mr klintock, now i suggest you get back inside the box and give me a reason why the everyday person should make things if they have no cost?
Ahh fair enough. You know that what people believe becomes true for them, then.
Hmm reality? The reality is that a lot of people have beliefs but their beliefs aren't reality for anyone but them. Not relevant to this though I reckon.
Lol. Too many variables to go through. Most people live in a horrible low grade fear, perhaps that's what motors them through life, I have no idea. MoK said in another thread that each person has a different motivation and he's right.
I am a bit stumped as too what you are asking for tbh.
it's just a mere antithetical statement to your belief that things would be better if things had no cost and if not better that things shouldn't have a cost in the first place, i'm sure there are many great people out there who would do their jobs free of cost and make things for free but thats not the way things work these days...we're not all greagt philosophers who think of these new ideas like you, people work for money, thats the harsh reality of life mate, just ask any joe bloggs on the street and he'll tell ya
I am sorry, Turlough, I never said that. I just pointed out that it was actually impossible, which it is. You can cross your fingers and wish to the big fairy what sits in the sky all you want but it ain't ever happening.
What we have is a bunch of people with a belief system they think is "true".
Because of beliefs they have..I just said they were beliefs and optional so why not come up with some that do the job better? Seems reasonable enough to me.
I am a crap philosopher as Blagsta would happily remind me.
Not at all, they just think they do. It's a tiny but important difference.
no there is a such thing as money, it might just be a piece of paper with an old bag's head printed on it but it is real, the idea of money might not be but the paper is real, it has a value, whoever made the value up God knows but we can use it for our purposes, thats the reality and the reality is that people go to work most days to get this money...
do you think a society could work without money? if so how could you stop greed?
Yes - reality - paper - belief - money
Could there be any without it?
you tell me
Good question.I suppose you could say I have accepted the contract on offer............for the time being,that is.
Where you are is where you are at.
seeker
Excellent. Are ALL the effected parties involved and capable? Is there a "meeting of minds" between you all?
Get me now?
Granted. Of course, what benefits you is what benefits you. How much truth you can stomach is up to your gut of course.
I do think that something can cost.
I live in quite a nice little house which is beyond my abilities to build. I needed someone else to do that for me. The only way I could get them to do that was to give them something of mine that they wanted.
Working, as I do, in a hospital, I must beg to differ. I doubt our surgeons would get very far on that attitude.
I'm resisting the urge to simply respond with 'rubbish'.