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Do You see how Bad the situation in Iraq?
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
I have seen these pictures in a site and liked to show them to YOU !!
* Feel free to link to the site, though with a warning that the images in the link may be distressing. Though looking over the images I'd have to wonder if you've the permission of the people involved to publish the images.
Anyway the images are really old, have been posted before, are fucking badly put together (welcome to the world of 12 year olds with photoshop), and don't tell us anything we didn't know *
* Feel free to link to the site, though with a warning that the images in the link may be distressing. Though looking over the images I'd have to wonder if you've the permission of the people involved to publish the images.
Anyway the images are really old, have been posted before, are fucking badly put together (welcome to the world of 12 year olds with photoshop), and don't tell us anything we didn't know *
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Comments
* if you saw these pictures in a site, link to them with a warning that they may be distressing. Though as has been said, they've been posted before and it really isn't a surprise that people get hurt in war *
C) If you want to contribute, why not join a debate, or start a debate. Spamming is a waste of my bandwith.
Its called War.
People get maimed.
People Die.
Fuck off.
Edit: No thanks required.
Despite how much of a fucking cunt The Matadore is (see Rubberskin thread in Anything Goes) I don't really want to have to see pictures of people with their faces blown off.
:mad: fucking prick just because you're some middle class fucking dick...get a life...i know the pictures are distasteful but you really go beyond me... i'd love to see you in iraq fighting for what you "believe" in... you'd fucking shit the load in two seconds you wannabe...why don't you enroll tonight and go over there and fight if you're so cool...although i hate the regime of america i have a lot of respect for the soldiers...they're putting their necks on the line for some wanker administration... a lot more than you'll ever do sunshine...i'm fucking glad i never got wound up in that neo-con shite...
WHY would someone "put their neck on the line" for some "wanker administration" ? Why do you have a lot of respect for someone who does?
emphasis mine
They didn`t go voluntarily? Were they just "following orders" ?
seeker
you're far too simplistic (I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt by assuming that you aren't speaking poorly of those soldiers). They aren't putting their next on the line FOR a "wanker administration" they are doing it BECAUSE of one. There is a difference, and the fact that they are dieing for a cause (real or imagined) is something to respect.
What’s with the whole “emphasis mine” thing?
Isn`t life simple,once you cut the crap?
Which soldiers?The ones in the pictures?Would it be alright to "speak poorly" of the "Iraqi" soldiers?What about "German" soldiers 1939-1945? "Japanese" soldiers?
Could you explain what that difference is?Do you respect EVERYone who dies for a cause?
I have added it to show that the original quote didn`t have the emphasis in it.
seeker
your attempts at analytically tearing down my arguments are embarrassing and you simplistic views are even worse.
1: you can't take a complicated issue and boil it down to "their government is wrong so their lives are unimportant" bull that is nothing short of dehumanization.
2:By try to make soldiers villains you accomplish nothing. They are people after all, and despite their political views a certain level of respect must be shown to people who are willing to sacrifice.
I didn`t realise I had said that :chin: ,.I`d say lives are TOO important to be sacrificed to propaganda.But as you brought up dehumanization.Isn`t that what "war" does?Take a simple conflict between 2 guys that gets heated and they come to blows.Emotive,and often derogatory,remarks are made by onlookers.
Package the conflict up as a "cause",perhaps add the mental concept of "nations" and it is fast becoming "noble and heroic"(Words like "our boys" are used).Dehumanization??How about shaving heads,throw in a uniform and don`t forget the all important flag.(An anthem never goes amiss).
They ARE people.But you may think that as simplistic?
You never answered the question I posed. Do you respect ALL people who die/sacrifice for a cause?
seeker
What`s on your mind,Deano Mac ?
seeker
So don't go buying into media fed labels too readily merely for the sake of misplaced nationalistic sentiments.
After all, those the Pentagon and corporate media regularly call "terrorists" are "resistance" or "freedom" fighters to the men, women and children for whom they fight.
i seperate terrorists from soldiers because i don't think they are the same thing.
911 shocked me so much and the ken bigley situation sickend me,to think people can do such things to another beggers belief!
i may sound like i am buying into media fed labels,but i can assure you i'm not.the iraq people have a genuine argument with the west,and i hate the fact this war reflects badly on us all.
terrorists for many are the soldiers of the people...we only call them terrorists because they're not our soldiers and they're fighting against our western ideals...i'm sure in Iraq they call the U.S army terrorists or some word along that same description...
proffessional soldiers are trained to fight other soldiers in a war situation.they are not trained to target civilians,they are trained to protect them(in theory).
we all seem to have an opinion about whats happening over there,but i don't believe you can have a real perspective unless you are there...you must get bitter as a soldier watching your mates get killed,they need our respect even though i don,t agree with them being there.
well thats true to a degree but when you see clips on the tv of american missiles pounding bagdhad and other areas and see the remnants of suicide car bombs you know the country is a mess...
In their eyes they do.
Have you ever considered that it's just a matter or perspectives. Personally, anyne who believes in a cause enough to die for it has to be respected and perhaps even feared.
How far would you go?
~~~~
Which brings me to Mat's point. It is war, people do die and we should face up to that. We may not like it, the scenes may be horrific but it is the reality.
And just because that happens doesn't make it any less necessary at times.
the problem i have, is attacking civilians is the most under hand way of getting your point across,they should attack the army that is attacking them!
in my opinion it is not the way to fight a war and is evil...they are "terrorists" not noble protagonists,they deserve no respect for these despicable acts of murder on innocent people.we can see their side as common people,why can't they see ours? do they not realise that "terrorism" undermines their cause and gains no respect from anyone! fear alone will not change anything,and will only turn the western worlds "common" people against them.
So then a terrorist is someone who deliberatley targets civillians?
Ok then well what about Hiroshima and Nagasaki in WW2? Or the British bombing campaigns on the German civillians? The pilots who carried out those attacks are they terrorists or just doing their duty to the cause? Are they soley respondible for all the deaths they caused or are the ones that ordered it?
Yeah i totally agree - these guys must have seen terrible things . . . but remember we're the agressors.
And to be honest calling it a war is a bit of a stretch - kind of on the level of a 200lb fella beating up a 120lb lad and calling it a fight .
But regardless of that a cause is a cause - its only seems to become terrorism when their cause results in them killing us
. . . please . . .
What is it? Approaching 100,000 civilian casualties in Iraq? Remember the whole torture issue?
War time protagonists do not respect civllian life . . . if you believe we're any better in that respect you have a very romanticised view of the west.
I can't quite remember where the definition is from but a good one of terrorism is 'The use of violence, or threat of violence, to bring about or stop a political change by a sub-state group in a state where there are political avenues that could bring about that change peacefully'
It could be argued that pre-elections the Iraqi resistance were freedom fighters. Its a bit harder to claim that now, when there is a democratic government in place and when the majority of Iraqis were able to vote for it (whether or not they did so).
A better estimate is more like 20,000, a fair proportion of which have been killed by the Iraqis themselves http://www.iraqbodycount.net/
The 100,000 estimate is seriosly flawed.
The 100,000 estimate is no doubt an over estimate but the www.iraqbodycount.net estimate is just as flawed. Hang on a sec let me find the article . . . can't remember where i read it . . .
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A7967-2004Oct28.html
Yeah its an inaccurate way to measure the deaths but Iraqybodycount.net isn't any better.
Even if we take the middle ground between the two estimates, your looking at 60,000 civilian deaths.
Even if you just take iraqbodycount.net's 20,000 estimate your still looking at a hell of a lot more casualties than in the 7/11 attacks.
I think the destinction there is pretty thin - two organisations can perform the same act but if one is a national government its 'terroristic' and the other is terrorism?
The labels are irrelevant to be honest, and I wonder how many of these academics are from outside western europe and the US? These distinctions are only made so that Western government can continue this myth that our actions result from a considered moral stance - that we are somehow morally superior. Its also helpful because America is only to aware that no other government can touch it - which means any attacks on American soil are terrorism and their retaliation is noble and just.
Its just lovely to have the moral upper hand.
Yes, who wouldn't want a foreign imposed democratic regime. Its the american dream.
Look the simple fact is you can't invade (sorry, 'liberate') a country, kill a whole shit load of their people and expect them to be happy about it - setting up a government doesn't then mean anyone still resisting your occupation is a terrorist.