the reason we still have to wait ages for an operation in this country is

Former Member

nhs doctors working privately normally in the same hospitals

discuss

ps - also a lack of radiologists and technical support staff

Former Member

because half the cabinet are shagging like rabbits and their offspring become nhs directors

Former Member

Consultants have always done that, its a way of making extra money, its the way of things.

Former Member

wheresmyplacebo wrote:

nhs doctors working privately normally in the same hospitals

Not strictly relevant.

NHS doctors have contracts which require them to work seven sessions (3.5 days) clinically with an additional session as "continuing medical education". The fifth day is therefore available for them to offer private services if they want to.

Currently, the NHS is attempting to carry out 15 months worth of work every 12 months (as waiting times are reduced) and there isn't enough capacity within the NHS to do this. We aren't just talking about staff here but also beds, theatre sessions, clinic rooms etc.

As a result NHS Trusts commission some operations through private hospitals. So the treatment is still on the NHS, just carried out elsewhere. Many consultant have taken advantage of this and use their private session to carry out some of this work.

It's worth noting that the majority of this work is surgery rather than outpatients.

Perhaps the biggest issue in which these two aspects are linked is the working practices. The same consultant is able to carry out more procedures per session in the private hospital than they are in their NHS site. I might suggest that this is because they are paid per case in the private session, but that would be unprofessional of me

Former Member

I thought the worst thing was waiting to get specialised tests done. For example, you can get an emergency operation in a few days, you can see a doctor who can refer you in a few days, but if you want a cat scan you have to wait a few weeks.

Don't quote me though, I saw it on the BBC news a while back

Former Member

Perhaps the biggest issue in which these two aspects are linked is the working practices. The same consultant is able to carry out more procedures per session in the private hospital than they are in their NHS site. I might suggest that this is because they are paid per case in the private session, but that would be unprofessional of me

probably being naive - but wouldn't it make sense to pay them for consultation on the NHS as well?

Former Member

TheShyBoyInTheCorner wrote:

I thought the worst thing was waiting to get specialised tests done. For example, you can get an emergency operation in a few days, you can see a doctor who can refer you in a few days, but if you want a cat scan you have to wait a few weeks.

Don't quote me though, I saw it on the BBC news a while back

its people who operate the machinery etc that were lacking now, mainly trained medical physicists etc seriously in most cases for your scan to be delayed the equipments there, just the eprson to operate it, isnt

Former Member

If NHS doctors were stopped from doing private work the NHS would collapse, many doctors would simply emigrate.

Those that have things done privately also help take strain off the NHS.

Former Member

Disillusioned wrote:

If NHS doctors were stopped from doing private work the NHS would collapse, many doctors would simply emigrate.

Those that have things done privately also help take strain off the NHS.

1st part is probably true from the mentality of most of the peopel i know doing medicine, but the 2nd part, nope!
the nhs has more than enough physical capacity just noone to actually fill the damn vacancies to use it

id like to see all the people i know studying medicine who want to work privately when they graduate, have to pay all their trainiing costs which have been done by the nhs

Former Member

TheShyBoyInTheCorner wrote:

I thought the worst thing was waiting to get specialised tests done.

It is. Diagnostic tests are something which both Tory and Lib Dem politicians have commented on. Naturally they ignore the fact that the NHS Improvement Plan (the sequel to the NHS Plan) requires that these are reduced. Effectively by end March 2008 patients will face maximum waits of 18 weeks from when they are referred by their GP until they are treated.

Also worth noting that from December this year patients will be able to agree the date for the first outpatient appoint whilst they are in their GP surgery being referred...

NQA wrote:

probably being naive - but wouldn't it make sense to pay them for consultation on the NHS as well?

Not naive at all. many of us have called for such an arrangement before. As of 1st April this is how hospitals will be paid. Previously they were paid a fixed sum for carrying out a set number of appointments/operations. It made no difference if they under or over achieved, they still got the same amount of funding.

wheresmyplacebo wrote:

its people who operate the machinery etc that were lacking now, mainly trained medical physicists etc seriously in most cases for your scan to be delayed the equipments there, just the eprson to operate it, isnt

One of the considerations at the moment is that the equipment is available 24/7 but the technicians aren't. In fact in some cases the staffing is only there for eight hours per day, five days per week. Effectively this means we use less than 1/3 or physical capacity.

As klintock pointed out in the other thread this can cause delays in patient treatment. Now imagine that the patient has been admitted pending a test, this result is "bed blocking".

Disillusioned wrote:

If NHS doctors were stopped from doing private work the NHS would collapse, many doctors would simply emigrate.

To an extent. Many doctors aren't actually from the UK anyway

Those that have things done privately also help take strain off the NHS.

Again partially true. Considering that the NHS has been doing 15 months work every 12 months for the past few years, I would argue that it does have capacity to deal with the daily demands. The problem is that we currently have a backlog (the waiting list) to deal with. Once this has been eradicated, the NHS will not have too many problems coping.