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So, no debate there - just glaring tabloid style rhetoric.
And then you wonder why people give up trying to talk, and decide to take action instead?
:crazyeyes
Lets be precise here with the language my friend.
We are talking about breaking the law, committing violent acts of criminal damage, making threats to peoples lives and property.
Things you condone?
If it was the BNP doing the same to ethnic minorities how would you feel?
Like the "government" do?
Like the "government" do?
Like the "government" do?
Theres no difference between a policeman using force to get his own way and anybody else doing it.
My, my.
Firstly, don't send me PMs. I don't want them from you.
Secondly, are you pretending that the BNP don't use violence and threats against ethnic minorities?
Thirdly, what exactly is a "violent act of criminal damage"?
Smashing scientists car that works at a research facility, probably, or attacking his home. Which many activists do.
You never did explain why your rds-online contains "FACTS" and mine doesn't. Did you forget?
I'm perfectly aware of what criminal damage is, I'm not clear what "violent criminal damage" is, other than an emotive term.......
And what exactly does ATTACKING A HOME mean?
Its contains facts as explained by another member I beleive as it isn't run by an activist group who's sole aim is to end the very subject matter.
And you can easily find out that those are facts by doing even the lightest of research and finding out, that, unsuprisingly, YES, those treatmens WERE developed with animal research. It isn't hard.
rds.online.org.uk exists to defend animal torture - it pays staff to write documents that support animal torture, and you'd have to be a fool to believe that they would include evidence that disputes the efficacy of animal testing in said documents.
Are you absolutely sure that your source is superior to mine?
Yes, I'm sure treatments were developed through the use of animal torture. But we're no longer in the 19th century ........ and there is plenty of evidence that testing drugs on animals does not necessarily make them safe for human consumption.
Presumably in a debate, one would weigh up the evidence on both sides of the argument. On thesite.org all one can expect is a bunch of reactionary kneejerk tossing, with statements like
"It's okay to criticise animal research, albeit misguided", and desperate attempts to paint anyone who doesn't accept that line as a "terrorist", whilst decrying the use of a word like torture, because its emotive!
That seems to be the level of the debate in the wider society, and as a result, some activists have turned to a very effective campaign of direct action, and are, whether you like it or not, having an effect on the debate.
Yet another extremist website
........
http://www.animaluse.org/html/animals_biomedical.html
http://www.fbresearch.org/education/vaccines/common.htm
http://www.ncc-1776.com/tle1995/le951107.html
http://www.simr.org.uk/pages/research/research_1.html
http://www.iifar.org/perspectives5.html
I found this story, interestingly enough, its quite amusing:
http://www.vaccinationnews.com/DailyNews/March2002/SmallVaxTurnsUp.htm
You see, there really isn't a fesable alternative yet. So why not wait until there is, rather than halting medical progress? Do you want half the world to die of diseases than can be cured or treated again? I don't. Yes, Animal Research isn't perfect, but damn it, nothing is, we just make do until we can do better. Its the Human way.
two wrongs dont make a right, so assuming that the general consensus is that animal testing is right or wrong
attacking someones home and harming them, scaring their famimly half to death, bricking their car windows in, burning their houses down, ad infinitum is wrong
we have a certain concept in this country that many others around the world dont, its called due process
Yes indeed. Due process is about apprehending, charging and trying the suspect.
What this thread is about is about avoiding due process and attempting to inflame public opinion ............... the laws already exist. The real issue here is the inability of the police to catch the offenders.
Heres an example of the double standards employed in this debate:
Which is nice........ and inconsistent as per usual.
Same as ever, read anything he posts in.
Lots of people are dying of AIDS.
Tatchell
See also Shortcomings of AIDS-related Animal Research for an in depth medical critique of the use of animal experimentation vis-a-vis AIDS........
The 3 R's (Refinement - Replacement - Reduction) are the ideals identified in 1959 by Burch and Russell, which are " widely accepted today as the basic principles of good laboratory animal practice."
Source
At present they are ideals which are subverted in a similar way that "democracy and freedom" were used to camoflauge nefarious activities.
It is time that more than lip service was paid to them - and there are already in existence a number of alternatives which should be more widely used. See Altweb for examples.
Until the 3 Rs become a genuinely intrinsic part of animal research, direct action will continue to be employed against the corrupt corporates ...........
Now, as it goes I see a big difference in someone being targetted because they are not white (a biological fact of birth that cannot be changed) and someone being targetted because they play a supporting role in an industry (a choice that can be changed - and in many cases has been....)
Heres what I said about anti-abortion avtivists back in February:
The same goes for the BNP ..........
It's Rich Kid that seems unable to take a consistent line on anything.
Lets be precise here with the language my friend.
We are talking about breaking the law, committing violent acts of criminal damage, making threats to peoples lives and property.
Things you condone?
To my mind, I don't care who it is, Animal Rights Terrorists, BNP, Womens Institute, Gay Pride, etc etc, if they break the law, as described above, then they should be arrested and punished.
I do not agree with drawing lines as you seem to do, quote (ftp):
Now, as it goes I see a big difference in someone being targetted because they are not white (a biological fact of birth that cannot be changed) and someone being targetted because they play a supporting role in an industry (a choice that can be changed - and in many cases has been....)
A crime, is a crime is a crime - we should all be equal before the law.
Oh, you think they should be arrested and punished. Any room for a fair trial in there?
So, you don't think that anti-abortion activists should be prayed for, whilst animal rights activists should be used for guinea pigs, particularly the nasty drugs?
Cos I could have sworn that I C+Ped those ideas from your posts. And even more to the point, I could have sworn that you started a thread called "animal rights terrorists" and singled them out as being different.
Suddenly you've done a swift about turn and agree that they should be treated the same as everyone else.
I know how a supplier of an animal reserach centre can stop the hassle.
Remind me how a black person can stop racist attacks.
PS Where are you getting this stuff from, freethepups?
...
I would advocate praying for ALL wrong-doers, there are none without sin.
I would pray for those violent militant anti-abortionists, who if they break the law, should be arrested and put on trial. Likewise with the fanatical animal rights terrorists, but if they really want to make their point why don't they volunteer as "human guinea pigs" - the IRA hunger strikers died for their beliefs, why not ALF terrorists? Why don't they show solidarity with the laboratory animals and volunteer to act as "human guinea pigs"? If the IRA can do it surely its not beyond ALF?
No swift about turn my friend, they're no different to any other terrorist group breaking the law.
Yes of course you do, we all do - by giving in to blackmail by the ALF terrorists with their criminal threats and deeds! We must fight these fascist terrorists, root them out, and put them away for a long long time.
Anyone involved in a racist attack should of course be arrested and dealt with by the courts in the normal way.
In my view anyone or group that uses "terror tactics" to achieve their aims are scum and should be harshly dealt with.
Hee hee - clearly if you oppose animal research you should volunteer to have it done on you?
That doesn't make sense........
Now, more to the point, why don't those who support animal research volunteer themselves as human guinea pigs? That makes moresense as an analogy.....
:sour:
As to your inconsistent approach to anti-animal research activists and anti-abortion activists, its out there for all to see......
As above. Beginning to geddit?
I merely restate what I've already said, ALL law-breakers, particularly those who use terror to achieve their goals, should be caught, tried, and if found guilty given a very long prison sentence. Terrorists deserve at least 20 years in a harsh regime prison.
Since you spread the most lies and propaganda on this board, time and time again, our paths will naturally cross.
I want nothing more to do with you, either. Thats just the way it goes.
Get over yourself.
So, direct action is NVDA or...?
:rolleyes: