Heroin users dont have to be down and outs

BillieTheBot

A new study in Scotland of long term heroin users has found that many have jobs, families, kids and are living a normal life without any serious problems.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4230985.stm

Clearly this is a case for MUCH wider prescribing of heroin, but its not going to happen.

Former Member

Just had to reply to this one! I totally agree, I am anything but a down and out, i am well dressed, articulate and intelligent, currently at college doing a 2 year Health & Social care diploma after which i may or may not go to uni and take a degree - I only recently told my yongest sister that i am an addict and she was gobsmacked, couldn't believe it and her first words were, 'but you don't look like a heroin addict' - i rest my case
I came to the dreaded H late in life, only 2 years ago, i am currently 36 and my life is fairly 'normal' and i do function reasonably ok, but it is all the shit of funding my habit that is making me miserbable, the deceit of not being able to tell family and friends, the stigma attached to using and ultimately the risk of overdose etc - for me using isn't fun anymore, i have crossed a line with it and i want out and al being well and good i'm off to rehab in the net week or so, just got my funding approved today actually - but no, not all heroin addicts are down and outs, far from it

Jaded

Glad to hear your funding was approved domiow, I hope rehab goes well for you, it sounds like you are ready to put in all the hard work!

The report itself is causing a bit of controversy, with theSociety Guardian reporting that

A new study claiming that heroin can be taken without damaging health or job prospects has been condemned by drug addiction groups.

More from the BBC website as well.

Former Member

I think that was the link I posted LadyJade.

Its not exactly surprising, anyone who knows about diamorphine will tell you that physically its a very safe drug, its the illegality of it which causes the problems.

Jaded

bongbudda wrote:

I think that was the link I posted LadyJade.

Oh yeah.

Former Member

http://www.kaiserfoundation.ca/uploads/pc030714msic.pdf

Hi Mr BB, great news huh? If you take a peep @ the link, it's relevent to the Syd trials that were conducted. They have just finished one year trials @ The Maudsely but wont ( press release due Sept gone ) release the info. They have indeed started another trial @ Marina House ( The Maudsely ) where they have a 60 client case load.

The pro's and cons as usuall comes down to the wonga eg, diam is £18.00 per hit, and has to be whacked 3 times a day as apposed to the 'dreaded' blue or green linctus, with its longer holding time. ( C/o Martindale et al ) They could alternativly make a powder form, but the argument against is overdose and leakage onto the black market.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/3592877.stm


Hey Mr BB. I'm gone, off to a far away board. Wishing yourself eternal Love, Peace, Joy & Happiness!! Keep up the good work! john.

Former Member

They do make methadone in both powder (tablet) and ampule form but they arent supposed to be prescribed.

Former Member

john the hippie wrote:

http://www.kaiserfoundation.ca/uploads/pc030714msic.pdf

Hi Mr BB, great news huh? If you take a peep @ the link, it's relevent to the Syd trials that were conducted. They have just finished one year trials @ The Maudsely but wont ( press release due Sept gone ) release the info. They have indeed started another trial @ Marina House ( The Maudsely ) where they have a 60 client case load.

The pro's and cons as usuall comes down to the wonga eg, diam is £18.00 per hit, and has to be whacked 3 times a day as apposed to the 'dreaded' blue or green linctus, with its longer holding time. ( C/o Martindale et al ) They could alternativly make a powder form, but the argument against is overdose and leakage onto the black market.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/3592877.stm


Hey Mr BB. I'm gone, off to a far away board. Wishing yourself eternal Love, Peace, Joy & Happiness!! Keep up the good work! john.

methadone does come in powder ya twonk ...you don't seem to know very much about drug subjects.
where do you get your figures from ...£18 a hit three times a day?

Former Member

as for heroin addicts being able to live normal productive lives ...this info is a hundred years old at least! heroin addiction need cause no health problems or social ones whatsoever.
i have stated this stuff a zillion times on these boards ...but will anyone listen ...

Former Member

I think the story had it right - heroin isnt really dangerous, just very addictive.

Jaded

Bong, don't get me wrong, I understand what you are saying but I feel like I need to clarify what you have said about about heroin not being dangerous.
In an ideal world, pure heroin isn't too physically damaging to the body. However in everyday life, heroin is cut with adulterants, can be smoked or injected with all the resultant physical damage and and risk of infection, lends itself to a certain lifestyle and so on.
Trying to dispel the myth that all heroin users are street homeless junkies and theives is both true and admirable, but the criticism of this report is that it goes to far the other way. My substance misuse expert is horrified by it, as are many of his colleagues.

Jaded

J wrote:

Sack her! Such a blatant human error is unacceptable! In some countries they would cut your fingers off for dirtying the internet with errors!

I just think of it as being overly helpful.

Former Member

LadyJade wrote:

Bong, don't get me wrong, I understand what you are saying but I feel like I need to clarify what you have said about about heroin not being dangerous.
In an ideal world, pure heroin isn't too physically damaging to the body. However in everyday life, heroin is cut with adulterants, can be smoked or injected with all the resultant physical damage and and risk of infection, lends itself to a certain lifestyle and so on.
Trying to dispel the myth that all heroin users are street homeless junkies and theives is both true and admirable, but the criticism of this report is that it goes to far the other way. My substance misuse expert is horrified by it, as are many of his colleagues.

I completely agree, most street heroin addicts do have problems, both mental health issues plus they are likely to be involved in crime. This to me though is all the more reason why it should be prescribed. This report shows that it is the illegality rather than the drug (mostly) that is the problem.

When I said heroin isnt dangerous, I should have clarified and said diamorphine (legal supply) which if used correctly isnt that dangerous. You are completely right that street heroin is dangerous, impurities, varing strength etc.

This report will hopefully influence the precribing guidlines which at present heavily frown on anything other than methadone mixture.

Jaded

There is another article in the Society Guardian today which brings up some of the issues surrounding this report that are concerning health professionals. Link here .

Former Member

I can see why front line workers would be pissed off at this, obviously the over whelming majority of heroin addicts arent like this, but they could be.

Former Member

Just one thing, methadone amps are prescribed, and not just on supervised administration. I was once with someone who went for his script and was given an entire weeks worth in amps rather than linctus - this was in the home counties in 97 (will I get in trouble if I say where?). I also have to say that most front line workers would be fine with this information, if people have no problems why would they need help? Lots of people use alcohol safely. The overwhelming majority of people who trash their lives with heroin would probably use any substance they could do it, it's just that heroin does it so effectively... Well it worked for me! But then, if it hadn't been brown would have been white or booze or whatever...

Former Member

Its not really that methadone ampules are illegal, they are sort of on the prescribing list, and they are (if prescribed) legal.

However, the GMC and the government has said that GP's should not prescribe anything other than the lintus.

Former Member

Yeah but what kinda jobs... Chicken factories ???

They're still probably going to die younger and have to live with scars all over there arms... Nice!

Former Member

Decode wrote:

Yeah but what kinda jobs... Chicken factories ???

They're still probably going to die younger and have to live with scars all over there arms... Nice!

Well no, they dont have too.

Diamorphine is very very easy on the body, it has very little physical impact.

As for the needle marks, yes, that is of concern, but that isnt the only way to get the drug into the body. And with clean supply and clean needles the chance of scaring is drasticly reduced.

Former Member

I have a friend who's parents have been addicts since before she was born, she's now in her mid 20s. Though it's not ideal and they would rather not have it tht way, they do have a fairly normal, good and honest quality of life.

Former Member

think keith richards of the stones ...been touring for a hundred years ...still playing still touring and writting and appearing in tv/radio interviews.
he is still smiling and laughing and working his nuts off ...likes the coke as well and a spliff and a drink or three ...there are so many wrinklys like him who have been bang at it for near 50 yrs and they are still smiling and making money.