Holland shut to non Westerners?

Former Member

One of the most popular politicians in the Netherlands said Friday the country's democracy is under threat and called for a five-year halt to non-Western immigration in the wake of the killing of a Dutch filmmaker by a suspected Muslim radical.

"We are a Dutch democratic society. We have our own norms and values," right-wing lawmaker Geert Wilders told The Associated Press in an interview. "If you chose radical Islam you can leave, and if you don't leave voluntarily then we will send you away. This is the only message possible."

I wonder how many hundreds of thousands of Muslims have contributed to the Netherlands' society...and the focus is only a few really bad people...but only a few.

I'm not saying to ignore it. But doesn't the point of view of closing Holland to non-Westerns expressed to be extreme?

Former Member

i think the western world is lurching back into facism gradually, can see from all the governments going more and more authoritarian

in the 20s/30s it was communism aka political extremists and its clash with western society, these days its religious extremists

Former Member

I agree it's a scary thought...and I wonder how many people who "hate" immigrants have ever gotten to know any? In the US, half the time they are people who are working very hard and going to school to fulfill dreams that sound like my folks' dreams.

Former Member

terror is winning. it's who is causing the terror that realy needs to be addressed.

Former Member

There is a clash of civilizations, but it's a small minority of each culture which is provoking it. In the west it's people like Van Gogh who believe freedom means the right to do and say whatever you please, however offensive it is to others. In the Islamic community there are people who respect the purported word of God more than they respect the right of non-muslims to live as they choose. There is no middle ground between these two positions, so until someone budges the battle will rage. More murders are inevitable if the two communities are forced to live up against each other, so why should they be?

Former Member

Originally posted by wheresmyplacebo
i think the western world is lurching back into fascism gradually, can see from all the governments going more and more authoritarian

Everybody who has eyes can see this.

Originally posted by wheresmyplacebo
in the 20s/30s it was communism aka political extremists and its clash with western society, these days its religious extremists

Wrong. In 20/30th communism wasn’t an ‘extremism’, it was a half of so called Western society ( the other half was fascism). The legend that communism was an alien element, ’extremism’ was invented during Cold War.
Nowadays Neo-conservatism and Environmentalism are two main totalitarian ideologies that have taken places of Fascism and Communism. Religious fundamentalism is a boogie man promoted by both of them to distract public attention from real evils.

Originally posted by nckdn
There is a clash of civilizations…

Wrong. There is a clash of Civilisation ( that is Capitalism) with Barbarism ( that is Mobocracy) Osama and Bush pretend they represent different civilisations. No. They are on the side of Barbarism against Civilisation.

Originally posted by nckdn
people like Van Gogh who believe freedom means the right to do and say whatever you please

He is not far away from truth. Not the best definition of Freedom but not the worst one at least.

Originally posted by morrocan roll
terror is winning. it's who is causing the terror that realy needs to be addressed.

Exactly true. Terror is winning, both Right terror and Left terror.
But who does give weapons to terrorists?
You.
You all who vote who pay taxes who obey authorities who believe in politicians’ wisdom who are happy to get this or that for free who worship mobocracy.
You take your pants off to be kissed in your arses and then when you are f*cked you are surprised how that could happen!

Former Member

Re: Holland shut to non Westerners?

Originally posted by bluestatesman
One of the most popular politicians in the Netherlands said Friday the country's democracy is under threat and called for a five-year halt to non-Western immigration in the wake of the killing of a Dutch filmmaker by a suspected Muslim radical.

"We are a Dutch democratic society. We have our own norms and values," right-wing lawmaker Geert Wilders told The Associated Press in an interview. "If you chose radical Islam you can leave, and if you don't leave voluntarily then we will send you away. This is the only message possible."

I wonder how many hundreds of thousands of Muslims have contributed to the Netherlands' society...and the focus is only a few really bad people...but only a few.

I'm not saying to ignore it. But doesn't the point of view of closing Holland to non-Westerns expressed to be extreme?

Yes it is extreme. Luckily no one will pay attention to him.

We have people here saying Britain should be closed to immigration too. Luckily such people are ignored like the shit-stirring racist scumbags they are.

Former Member

Originally posted by LabRat
Everybody who has eyes can see this.

For once I agree with you.

Originally posted by LabRat
Wrong. In 20/30th communism wasn’t an ‘extremism’, it was a half of so called Western society ( the other half was fascism). The legend that communism was an alien element, ’extremism’ was invented during Cold War.

I think you mean the Stalinist brand of communism. Which is not dissimilar to fascism.

Originally posted by LabRat
Nowadays Neo-conservatism and Environmentalism are two main totalitarian ideologies that have taken places of Fascism and Communism. Religious fundamentalism is a boogie man promoted by both of them to distract public attention from real evils.

How is environmentalism a totalitarian idealogy?

Originally posted by LabRat
Wrong. There is a clash of Civilisation ( that is Capitalism) with Barbarism ( that is Mobocracy) Osama and Bush pretend they represent different civilisations. No. They are on the side of Barbarism against Civilisation. He is not far away from truth. Not the best definition of Freedom but not the worst one at least.

You sure wrote a lot while actually saying fuck all. How is capitalism civililsed? Its an idealogy based on greed, violence and exploitation.

Originally posted by LabRat
Exactly true. Terror is winning, both Right terror and Left terror.
But who does give weapons to terrorists?
You.
You all who vote who pay taxes who obey authorities who believe in politicians’ wisdom who are happy to get this or that for free who worship mobocracy.

I think you'll find its capitalist businesses that supply weapons.

And "mobocracy"? Have you learnt a new word? Bet you're proud.

Former Member

Originally posted by Blagsta
For once I agree with you.

Thanks. Really, no jokes.

Originally posted by Blagsta
I think you mean the Stalinist brand of communism. Which is not dissimilar to fascism.

I meant Stalin’s, Lenin’s, Mao’s, Pol-Pot’s, Ceausescu’s, Castro’s, Mengistu’s, Kim’s brands of communism. Yes, I know there were other, more human brands. But they always lost while brutal brands always won.

Originally posted by Blagsta
How is environmentalism a totalitarian idealogy?

Ohh… I could say a lot. Read this for example.
http://irenkenya.org/page.php?instructions=page&page_id=11&nav_id=19

Originally posted by Blagsta
I think you'll find its capitalist businesses that supply weapons.

No. Capitalist business as it is now is to sell pistols and hunting guns. Tanks, submarines, bombers are bought by states only for taxpayers’ ( not private!) money. Citizens have no right to buy this stuff. I think you agree that the state’s monopsony is in no way a free market? So it is not capitalism.

Originally posted by Blagsta
And "mobocracy"? Have you learnt a new word? Bet you're proud.

Sorry it is just my translation of the word Democracy. I believe it is a good translation because it uses two meanings of the word mob, 1. crowd 2. mafia. These two meanings combined describe democracy perfectly.

Former Member

There are dozens of words that could describe capitalism... not one of them is pretty...

Former Member

Originally posted by LabRat

I meant Stalin’s, Lenin’s, Mao’s, Pol-Pot’s, Ceausescu’s, Castro’s, Mengistu’s, Kim’s brands of communism. Yes, I know there were other, more human brands. But they always lost while brutal brands always won.

Again, I'd be inclined to agree with you.
Good job I'm not a communist eh?

Originally posted by LabRat
Ohh… I could say a lot. Read this for example.
http://irenkenya.org/page.php?instructions=page&page_id=11&nav_id=19

Apart from being able to pick a few holes in that article (DDT has been proven to be dangerous, malaria can be combatted in other ways etc), I stil fail to see how it proves your environmentalism = totalitarianism thesis.

Originally posted by LabRat
No. Capitalist business as it is now is to sell pistols and hunting guns. Tanks, submarines, bombers are bought by states only for taxpayers’ ( not private!) money. Citizens have no right to buy this stuff. I think you agree that the state’s monopsony is in no way a free market? So it is not capitalism.

I think you'll find armaments are made by private companies and sold for profit, so it is capitalism.

Originally posted by LabRat
Sorry it is just my translation of the word Democracy. I believe it is a good translation because it uses two meanings of the word mob, 1. crowd 2. mafia. These two meanings combined describe democracy perfectly.

You been drinking again?