Home Politics & Debate
If you need urgent support, call 999 or go to your nearest A&E. To contact our Crisis Messenger (open 24/7) text THEMIX to 85258.
Read the community guidelines before posting ✨
Options

Gibraltar

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
UK praises Gibraltar dialogue

What should happen? Should we refuse to discuss Gibraltar with Spain until the Spanish end their hypocritical double standards over North African enclaves ? Or should we go against the will of 98% of Gibraltarians and force a power-sharing deal on them?
«1

Comments

  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ... referendum

    - stay with Britain
    - join Spain
    - 'joint sovereignty' arragement
    - independence
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by lukesh
    they have had one 99% choose to stay with the Uk 100%

    there you go end off story clsoed.

    why cant people understand it?

    look at its geography and history, it's not exactly always been a british colony and it's not exactly as close as say northern ireland is close to the uk.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Didn't know about the referendum - so yes, I agree, let them remain part of the UK.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by lukesh
    who gives a shit man?

    and you yap at us for not accepting other people's views, obviously a lot of people DO give a shit, otherwise there wouldn't be a debate on this topic
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by lukesh
    they want to be with the uk - we grant them that


    its people like you and stupid polititions who make it so dam compliacted and it aint its dead simple

    to be honest, i don't really care about gibralter, i'm just putting forward a contrast of opinion, it's up to you to reply to that opinion, you can do it in a suitable manner or do your usual dumb rhetoric, it is a debating forum, be prepared for contrasting opinions, please be more understandin in future and be more intelligent in your responses
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by lukesh
    u make life so hard... but its so simple in reality

    ok

    they want to stay woth the uk 99% do... so that what happens
    end of man

    simple init.
    move on

    and what the spanish people themselves think is totally irrelevant, yea?
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by lukesh
    yep because its british.....

    thing is luke, it wasn't always british, it was a Spanish island you know
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If you think nations have a right to to take land thousands of miles away that belongs to other people and make it part of one's country, why did you go to war against Argentina in 1982 and killed 1000+ Argentinian soldiers to get back Las Malvinas?

    At the end of the day Argentinains only did what Britain did to Spain regarding Gibraltar...
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by turlough
    thing is luke, it wasn't always british, it was a Spanish island you know
    It's not even an island- it's part of Spain's mainland.

    It's equivalent to the French taking Southampton by force, fencing it over, populating it with French people, flying the French flag for all to see and telling the British "this is now French territory and its inhabitants want to remain French, so tough luck matey."

    I wonder how many British would be so willing to respect the wishes of the French residents of the French enclave of Le Southampton as they are of the residents of Gibraltar.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by lukesh
    but its now british so act up on that matey.

    who owns britain, certainlt not the british anyway
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Aladdin
    It's not even an island- it's part of Spain's mainland.

    It's equivalent to the French taking Southampton by force, fencing it over, populating it with French people, flying the French flag for all to see, populating it with French people and telling the British "this is now French territory and its inhabitants want to remain French, so tough luck matey."

    I wonder how many British would be so willing to respect the wishes of the French residents of the French enclave of Le Southampton as they are of the residents of Gibraltar.

    i saw a few programs on TV about gibralter, there's a union jack on every lampost and building, the kerbs are painted red white and blue, it's shameful and unnecessary
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yes, doesn't it remind you of somewhere else? :rolleyes:
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Aladdin
    Yes, doesn't it remind you of somewhere else? :rolleyes:

    unfortunately yes
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Aladdin
    It's not even an island- it's part of Spain's mainland.

    It's equivalent to the French taking Southampton by force, fencing it over, populating it with French people, flying the French flag for all to see and telling the British "this is now French territory and its inhabitants want to remain French, so tough luck matey."

    I wonder how many British would be so willing to respect the wishes of the French residents of the French enclave of Le Southampton as they are of the residents of Gibraltar.
    Does the Treaty of Utrecht no longer stand then?
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    but, does Southampton have monkies?
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Not for 250 years or so, judging by Menorca (that's regarding the treaty, not the monkeys ;) ) . Under the same treaty Menorca belongs to Britain as well. But I have not heard the British government lay claim to it.

    I think the issue is going to keep rumbling on and on and on. However I believe a compromise could and should be reached. Joint sovereignty coupled with giving Gibraltarians a full British passport would mean they would not lose their status. No one in Spain is actually suggesting that they must leave the place- nor should they have to become Spanish.

    And for what is worth, I believe Spain should do just the same thing concering the Spanish enclaves of Ceuta and Melilla.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Aladdin
    I think the issue is going to keep rumbling on and on and on. However I believe a compromise could and should be reached. Joint sovereignty coupled with giving Gibraltarians a full British passport would mean they would not lose their status. No one in Spain is actually suggesting that they must leave the place- nor should they have to become Spanish.
    What advantage would Spain achieve with joint sovereignty? Surely it would be the road to full Spanish sovereignty eventually.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Kentish
    What advantage would Spain achieve with joint sovereignty? Surely it would be the road to full Spanish sovereignty eventually.

    joint sovereignty wpould be merely a good will gesture on the uk's behalf, to keep them shut for a while but if you give a dog too much to chew, he'll bite off more than you bargained for.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Kentish
    What advantage would Spain achieve with joint sovereignty? Surely it would be the road to full Spanish sovereignty eventually.
    Just by being able to fly the Spanish flag alongside the Union Jack you'd erase tensions by 90%.

    As a Spaniard I believe most of the resentment comes down to that. Ideally I'd remove the fences and borders, and simply allow both sets of residents to roam freely without passport controls and delays.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Aladdin
    As a Spaniard I believe most of the resentment comes down to that. Ideally I'd remove the fences and borders, and simply allow both sets of residents to roam freely without passport controls and delays.
    There should be open borders anyway within the EU. That doesn't depend on joint sovereignty.

    Flying a flag would solve the tension? The channel islands are nearer France than England, but you don't hear the French whinging about joint sovereignty. Gibraltar has been British for 700 years.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Kentish
    Gibraltar has been British for 700 years.

    and... ireland has been under some form of british rule for 800, doesn't make it british though
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by turlough
    and... ireland has been under some form of british rule for 800, doesn't make it british though
    Which, north or south?
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Kentish
    Which, north or south?

    well the whole of ireland till 1922 i think and the north since
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by turlough
    well the whole of ireland till 1922 i think and the north since
    Britain doesn't claim Eire, and the Irish don't want to be British, so that's fine and dandy.

    Northern Ireland is split as you well know between those who want to be part of Britain and those who don't. Different from Gibraltar you see.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Kentish
    Britain doesn't claim Eire, and the Irish don't want to be British, so that's fine and dandy.

    Northern Ireland is split as you well know between those who want to be part of Britain and those who don't. Different from Gibraltar you see.

    you're right and you're wrong, the whole situation over here is alot more complex than outsiders would percieve it to be, i suposse you have to live here to understand but yea it's certainly different to gibralter.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by turlough
    you're right and you're wrong, the whole situation over here is alot more complex than outsiders would percieve it to be, i suposse you have to live here to understand but yea it's certainly different to gibralter.
    I'm quite certain of that, but really most people on the mainland would rather you lot just made up your mind amongst yourselves and then stayed with the UK or joined Ireland or went independent. But pride is at stake, so that could never happen...

    In Gibraltar it is the opposite problem: Gibraltarians know what they want, but the British and Spanish governments are trying to impose change.

    If only I was world leader...
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Kentish
    I'm quite certain of that, but really most people on the mainland would rather you lot just made up your mind amongst yourselves and then stayed with the UK or joined Ireland or went independent. But pride is at stake, so that could never happen...

    In Gibraltar it is the opposite problem: Gibraltarians know what they want, but the British and Spanish governments are trying to impose change.

    If only I was world leader...

    personally i'd feel very frustrated if i was a citizen of gibralter, like you're future is in the hands of two outside powers and you don't have much control about it

    it's getting really tense over here at the moment, the population is like 50/50, maybe more protestants, they're getting angrier because of more powers nationalists get, basically we (most nationalists) want a referendum on what the people want but there's a huge element that'll fight to the death for britain, scares me sometimes what people do for this belief.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Are you ever not blindly patriotic?
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The question arrises, why do we want it? And more importantly why do the Spanish want it back so badly?
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm sure there are bits of the world that want to become British too. Seira Leone wants to become under our control again strangely. Should we bow to public opinion there too?
Sign In or Register to comment.