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Arsene - Bad Loser or Motivator?
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Anyone else noticed how badly Arsenal reacted to their defeat yesterday. Was it the "but no-one can beat us" arrogance, or do you think that they really felt cheated?
What about Arsene's comments - it was the ref, we were the better team etc Is that because he's sore (having failed to beat United in six(?) league games now) or do you think that he really believes his own hype...?
And before anyone mentions it, no I don't think it was a penalty (but Ronaldo should have had one a few minutes later), yes Rio should possibly have been sent off (as should a couple of players in the blue) and no Rooney wasn't offside...
What about Arsene's comments - it was the ref, we were the better team etc Is that because he's sore (having failed to beat United in six(?) league games now) or do you think that he really believes his own hype...?
And before anyone mentions it, no I don't think it was a penalty (but Ronaldo should have had one a few minutes later), yes Rio should possibly have been sent off (as should a couple of players in the blue) and no Rooney wasn't offside...
Post edited by JustV on
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As far as sour grapes go, I think they're as bad as each other to be honest.
Ferdinand should be getting a ten match ban for harrassing the ref, as should the N*v*ll* brothers.
Rooney is a cheating fat Scouse fuck.
Ronaldo is a cheating lanky Dago fuck.
van Nistelrooy should be getting a ten match ban for his stamping.
The second fat cheating Scouse fuck's goal was fine, but if Arsenal hadn't been losing it wouldn't have happened.
No, Arsenal weren't cheated at all :rolleyes:
This always happens, United can't beat Arsenal on talent so they resort to diving, cheating, and harrassing the referee. And because the Football Association is a Manchester United stitch-up, they allow it every time.
Arsenal were the better team, but 67,500 people bellowing made the ref, and the FA rules that United Must Never have a penalty awarded against them, give everything to the home side. EVERYTHING. As always, in fact- remind me, when was the last time United had a penalty given against them?
I do wish Arsenal would stop bottling it against United though. It's what they always do, don't go all-out for them, and they lose because of it.
Coincidence?
Definitely not.
Remember in 1999 when Elleray didn't award that goal in the FA Cup Semi? Ten months till he refereed another United game, wasn't it?
Rooney's learnt the Man United way after only 2 months. Fergie must be so proud. Plug should've been sent off, without question. It's always harder to play against 12 men as well.
This sense of injustice should inspire them, like it did last year.I wouldn't like to be playing for Southamption next Saturday....
Wenger and Vieira,
Built a team that was devine,
Never lost it seemed forever,
No defeats in Fourty-Nine.
I'm glad that headmaster twat has retired, cost Chelsea the FA Cup in '94 with dodgy Pen decision to who, oh yes Utd.
The penalty, I admit, would not have been given down the other end of the field, but unfortunartely this is something which goes on in Premiership football. Riley would've given a penalty like that to Arsenal had the match been at Highbury. The fact that he denied United the more clear penalty decision afterwards seems to make it a little fairer.
Arsene Wenger's reaction after the match was sad and petulant. Decisions go against teams all the time, even when your players are constantly huddling round the ref during every single decision in every single match they're in. Man United have been guilty of this in the past, but yesterday it was Arsenal trying to pull all the strings with the officials.
On a more positive note I thought United's performance was the most best all season. That is the side Ferguson should be playing every game; I see it as luck that Fletcher, Djemba Djemba and Klebersson were injured. Phil Neville had a brilliant game and I think Ferdinand definately deserved Man of the Match.
Ref shouldn't have awarded the Rooney penalty either. A sad but predictable action by Rooney- another pupil graduates with honours from the Ronaldo School for Diving Excellence.
For what's worth a few Arsenal players would have dived in exactly the same way if a United defender had done what Campbell did.
And the Ronaldo penalty that wasn’t awarded was definitely a penalty.
There was a nailed on penalty after, that wasn't given but saying it was evened out is wrong because games change when goals are scored. Just as Rooney wouldn't have got the 2nd if it was still 0-0.
Man U wonder why everyone hates them but when they put on a rough arse performance like that, get away with murder in front of the referee, fall down in installments everytime someone goes near them, it is no wonder everyone hates the scumbags. I wonder if they have 1/2hr every night after training just to practice diving. Ronaldo was more bothered about falling over than getting round his man, maybe he thought it was his only chance as he was still in Coles pocket from Euro'04.
"SAME OLD MAN U, ALWAYS CHEATING"
And for those who don't think that the FA are in ManUre's back pocket, why was Poll ditched from refereeing?
It'll be interesting to see if Horseface's horrendous and intentional stamp on Cole's knee (he looked to see where he was ffs) will earn him a ban at least the equivalent of Lauren's last year. £20 the equine cunt won't even get a one match ban.
Mind, no wonder van Nistelrooy is so pissed off, when you see the bird he goes home to every night.
Ljungberg booted the ball way ahead of him and Roy Carroll was on the edge of his box. I still think there is a foul but it is possible to receive a yellow card in such situations. A sending off would have been very harsh.
Ha fucking ha. What about Viera, I could have sworn he was holding the referee's hand he was round him that much. Same with Ashley Cole the whinging wee fuck.
Yea, but he's a damn good footballer and you'll still be licking his ass crack when he wings them in for England, which he undoubtedly will do. Rooney won that penalty and I guarantee that you, the referee and the 250 million other people who saw the match thought stone cold penalty when you you saw it. No one can blame the ref. Just like when Pires went over against Portsmouth last year.
No he's not. He's just too damn good and gets the better of people all the time (including Ashley Cole) as proven by the STONE COLD PENALTY not gven to United shortly after the first. He goes down easy sometimes but why don't you add Henry, Reyes and that dirty fuck Pires to your cheat list you Gooner loving Fascist. And lets add Toure to our little cheat list while were at it after his pathetic attempt, or did you, like Wenger, in the infamous and numerous occasions of cheating Arsenal 'not see that incident.'??
What about Viera's howler on Ronaldo, Henry's 'leg to head' with Heinze and Bergkamp's elbow you bleating child. And lets add to this little list the dirty scummer who couldn't hide his frustration at being beaten by a hungrier and better team, and threw soup at the manager.
Yea but they were losing, and it did happen so get over it.
As the Ferdinand case proved :rolleyes: and countless others including Arsenal getting away with murder at the same fixture last year.
Sure they were, haha. With their 1 shot on target they really dominated. Yes I know United didnt pepper their goal but they still created more chances and crucially they scored, TWICE
Well if me memory serves me correctly it was against Liverpool. Guess where? Old Trafford. Guess who reffed? Mike Riley. SHOCK HORROR, what next? Wenger actually seeing HIS own team cheating...don't count on it.
It's quite simple. United don't let them play. They give them no space and get physical and their pussy bastard players can't handle it. Yea fouls go in and its not always pretty but its the result that matters. Brilliant performance and United showed how Arsenal can be beaten, 2 fucking nil
Nice to get that out. I enjoyed ripping your post apart Kermit. Thank You
I also enjoyed ripping your post to shreds
"SAME OLD SCUMBAGS, ALWAYS CHEATING" and then claiming they were the better team and deserved to win :rolleyes:
As a nailed on Red, I sadly have to agree. Had I been the ref, he'd have walked. That Ljundberg didn't have control of the ball is irrelevant.
Actually it's not a case of 'nuff said. This comment has been made several times during this thread and it's really pissing me off.
This is a blatant accusation that either United have cheated those pens or Riley is suspect.
Question is, have any of you actually seen the footage of those decisions?
Sky did a review last night...
I'm never going to claim that United are whiter than white. THey are no better or worse than any other team in the league. To suggest otherwise is folly.
The reason for the start of this thread was to highlight that Arsenal don't seem to take the rough with the smooth. I'm sure Pompey fans would have alot to say about Arsenal players diving (for one). Thing is decisions sometimes go for you, sometimes against.
What really saddens me about this debate is the predictable ABU response. From what has been said during this thread you would think that Arsenal played the whole game above board, with no gamesmanship, no harrassment of the referee. Of course, none of you has mentioned the blatant dive by the Arsenal defender towards the end of the game. No-one has mentioned that the Arsenal players surrounded the ref at the end of the game.
Yet if United had done that...?
My other reason for the thread, was to enquire whether anyone thinks that Arsene response was as much about motivating his team as about real concerns. Basically, if he blames anyone but his team he can argue that the reason that they lost wasn't down to them.
Conveniently glossing over the fact that Arsenal haven't beaten United for three years (excluding the Charity Farce)...
Toure blatantly fell over, that is without question, but nobody with fully functioning eyes can sit there and say that he is more of a cheat than Rooney, who fell over with nobody around him. I can't condemn Toure for trying to play cheats at their own game.
Reyes was kicked from pillar to post the entire match, that is any undeniable fact. I lost count of the number of nailed-on yellow card fouls Gary Neville was allowed to get away with.
Ferdinand should have walked, at least you admit that. It was wonderful to watch him run fifty-five yards to complain at the ref after Horseface or Ronaldo had thrown themselves twenty feet in the air; as for Vieira "stalking the ref", if most play is in midfield then that's where the players will be. Phil Neville "stalked" the ref just as much; odd how the United lot don't mention that, I find.
As for Cole "whingeing", I bet you would be if you'd be stamped on right on the middle of the knee, deliberately, and the referee had blatantly and deliberately ignored it because you were wearing the wrong colour shirt.
Don't drag up "last season's disgrace", because I happen to think United got off scot-free after last year.Both Giggs and Ronaldo again (shock, horror) should have received bans instead of pathetic fines, and Horseface should have received a ban for his blatant cheating that year. As should Forlan (another dive then, too, for the record).
I'm no closet Gooner, but I am sick of the blatant pro-UInited bias at the FA. United get everything their own way- for all the arguments about Ferdinand he neglected to take a drugs test, and if he'd been playing for Chelsea or Arsenal he'd have received a ten or twelve month ban. And you damn well know it. Cantona got away with murder way back when too, if we're going to go down that record.
And yes, I am saying that United are cheating fucks and that Riley is bent. About 8 of those penalties were right, but 2 were dubious, so that very clearly shows a pro-United bias or United cheating. Probably both, in fact.
"Yeah, I deliberately fell over" said Scholes. Why wasn't he banned for that? Oh, because he plays for United. They tried to throw the book at Beckham, but Scholes got away with it scot-free. Because he wears red and white.
Two of the others were rather blatant dives or inconsequential 'pushes'. It doesn't take much at all for Riley to reward his beloved United with a penalty... apparently looking at a Man U player inside the box is enough to award a penalty as far as that fine referee is concerned.
Why is he any less of a cheat? That is a tyical ABU (closet gooner) response. A dive is a dive. As for beating cheats at their own game , if you ever watch an Arsenal game, which I'm sure you do you will realise they persistently cheat and hound the referee, as show cased by the disgraceful incident at Fulham. If aything United were beating THEM at their own game. I'm not saying United are angels but it is unfair to make it seem like they are the only team who try and bend rules.
The referee tried to let he game flow without any hasty bookings. Cole set the tone with his foul in the first minutes. Don't start a fight if you can't finish it. Arsenal got away with some shockers as well.
I've watched the match three times (because I love it) and Viera stalked that ref more than anyone on that pitch. Your right the United players were doing it but theyre not gonna stand around letting that Senagalise twat mouth off without getting their own words in. It happens game in game out. Get over it.
It was a horrific challenge but again, don't start a fight you can't finish. Unfortuntely the game had that tone and something was gonna spill over. I think maybe RVN had last years events still etched in his mind. No excuse all the same, granted. But had it been Cole on RVN would their be such an outcry, fuck no!
Get over these conspiracy theories. What a load of bollocks this is. David Dein, Arsenal chairman, sits on the FA board for fuck sake. Yea he's pro United :rolleyes:
Yea thats's exactly what it shows
And also, put an end to this whingey 'it would have been a different game' bollocks. Yea and it would have been a different game if Lehmann hadn't stopped to change his boots or if any other number of variables took place. Arsenal turned up with a negative attitude looking for a draw. It all went horribly wrong and they were beaten by a hungrier more deterined side who just wanted it more, United don't play for draws. Arsenal only dominated posscession once United scored because they had to. United weren't gonna continue to attack a formiddable team who score most of their goals on the break. Sit back and hold them off. 1-0 would have been great. 2-0 was icing on the cake regardless of what happened. And may I suggest a glass of the finest Cabernet Sauvignon to rid that taste of sour grapes from your mouths.
BTW When we are talking about how United didn't deserve to win (thus ignoring the shots on target etc) am I the only who didn't think Henry turned up again?
Isn't this a bit of a regular thing now? Henry disappearing in "big" games I mean. Just look at most of the games against United, the Champions league games last year (except Milan and Rome when he showed what he can do) and the French games in Korea and Portugal...
Henry did the square root of fuck all, really.
As per.
United still didn't deserve to win, 0-0 would have been the fairest result.
I love the way being ABU makes one a "closet gooner". Five years ago it was a closet Geordie, ten years ago it was a closet Blackburn fan.
Face facts, United are despised because they are cheating vermin.
Bugger all bans????
Arsenal lost 2 first choice players for 4 games and 2 valuable subs for 5 games and were fined £175000 (not including the fines for all 6 individuals). A fair and just punishment for what was all in all, ugly but nothing more than handbags at dawn. The rules were applied like they will for HFCC. He and Man United can have no complaints.
Arsenal played the best football Sunday, Man United did extremely well to lock up shop and slow the ball down. Rio staying on the field helped in that respect. A draw would've been a fair result, but the defeat had to come some time. Man United wanted the win more than Arsenal it was obvious, they HAD to win. It would've been oh so different had Rio been walking and he should have. I can accept Arsenal lost, but cannot accept the way they lost.
Man United's players only ever seem to turn up for "big" games which constitute less that 25% of the season, in the bread and butter games of the league they're way of the pace. It cost them last season and it will this season if they're not careful.
Henry had a piss poor game Sunday, no question. But Arsenal on the whole didn't.
Here's to February 1st.
Well that's the thing with these ABU fans. They switch to whoever is making the best challenge to United at that time. Maybe once Viera realises he's a Galactico and the Arsenal downfall sets in you'll jump ship and start licking Chelsea's crack or whoever poses the greatest challenge to United. Its the way of the ABU fan. Petty.
Nope. It's quite simply because they are successful. All animosity towards United is rooted in the fact they are Britains most successful club. All these unbeaten runs don't really mean fuck all. 49+out, not the treble is it. Now I know your gonna jump on me for bringing up the treble because you ABU fans like to believe 1999 never actually happened. You just displace your petty jealousy on this cheating tag which is absolute bullshit.
Liverpool aren't despised, and they weren't at the height of their achievements.
And Liverpool's achievements, in all fairness, piss all over United's.
United were despised in the 1970s and 1980s too, when they were shit.
So "success" is bollocks, I'm afraid.
Let's make one thing clear as well: in the last few years United have been the challengers to Arsenal dominance, not the other way around.
Britain's most successful club is Liverpool FC.
As Kermit has pointed out their four European Cups piss all over United trophy room, I'm afraid.
No one is denying that the Treble was a fantastic achievement. But you must also recognise the incredible achievement Arsenal has just done.
I never said Rooney didn't dive. I obviously realise it was a dive and no I don't like that manner of football. It is not good for the game and Rooney should realise what he did was wrong. I actually used to think Ronaldo went down very easily but against Arsenal when he was taken down it was because of a challenge or a foul (again, disallowed penalty springs to mind). I never saw him trip over grass or anything. But I can understand why you think he dives alot. The truth is, because of his skills he consistently draws in fouls. His game plan is kind of 'I'm going to skin you and the only way you can stop it is if you foul me' therefore he is consistently brought down.
That is a fact. And believe me I do acknowledge Arsenal's achievements. It is good for the premiership to have a team of such ability. I just don't get carried away and blow it into anything it isn't. People forget its not actually the longest unbeaten run ever. AC Milan went 58 games unbeaten in the early 90's with van Basten etc. That team isn't remember for its unbeaten runs though, it is remembered for it's trophies and success. Arsenal aren't even close to emulating anything like that. I do accept that to go that many games unbeaten is fantastic though. I suppose it made Sundays victory all the sweeter so every cloud...and all that.
I only speak from experience and a large majority of people I meet who hate United have their animosity rooted in United's success. You can't just take your own views, project them onto the population as a whole and then say....everyone hates United because.... It is easy to accuse a team of cheating when you dislike them, not so easy when its your own team or the precious gooners. If you must insist that United are cheats, why can noone here accept that Arsenal are cheating scum too.
I realise Liverpool are England's most successful club, believe me, I'm reminded by my flatmate nearly every day. I probably meant to refer to the fact that United are Britains most successful club in the modern era (Premiership, Champions League etc).
I don't like coming across as an arrogant head up my own arse scum fan or whatever but you must realise that it is very easy for you non United fans to brand me as that. All I'm doing is putting up an argument and trying to defend the team. It is very easy to come on here, showing no immediate or clear affilliation to a big team and slate the fuck outta clubs you hate (Man Utd). Its more difficult when your the one trying to defend the hated club. We all have opinions but to come on here and churn out all these rash, offensive and over the top comments is just tryin to incite a response.
It shows that they dominated the League last year but it should be remembered that is the only trophy they actually won. 49 matches unbeaten in one competition doesn't sound so good, does it...?
One that they came close to during 1999/2000. 46 games unbeaten (I believe) and that included League, FA Cup and Champions League.
I applaud Arsenal for doing what they did.
The hype is a little OTT though, wouldn't you say?
It's being protrayed as the greatest team performance in over 100 years, yet you will recall that when we discussed the top ten team we could show that actually they weren't even in that - when you take into consideration what other teams had achieved.
I think we all agree that the European Competition is the ultimate. So, in that case you have...
Liverpool x 4
Villa x 1
Forest x 2
United x 2 (one of which was a treble!)
You also have several teams who have completed the double, including two previous Arsenal teams, two United teams, Liverpool and Spurs...
Going unbeaten in one competition doesn't actually mean a great deal. It is possible to do that and still get relegated...
I don't think the hype is OTT because it is an excellent achievement and if Man U went on the run starting now and beat the record I bet you would all be rubbing Arsenals noses in it which proves that it is a record you would like. In terms of achievement then your right. But when you watch them on the tv and I know in my time there has never being a better team that plays better football, you also hear all the ex proffesionals saying it is the best team they've ever seen play so in that respect they can be portrayed as the best footballing team of all time. Thats my opinion because I love watching them play. I think its very much down to Wenger aswell because the goal the "2nd Team" scored in the Carling Cup looked like what you would call a typical Arsenal goal. They have a big future, all they need is the european cup then certain people
You also know I'm no closet gunner, I just enjoy football and Arsenal play the best of it at the moment.