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Asbos
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
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Was interested when I read this. Tailored justice for individual crimes? Or a risk to individual freedom?
Was interested when I read this. Tailored justice for individual crimes? Or a risk to individual freedom?
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Gang members in Manchester have been forbidden from wearing body armour, wearing bandanas or other gang symbols and from concealing their identity.
These are just the members identified as being part of the gang.
The ringleaders have all been given hefty prison sentences with minimum 7 year terms for drugs, robbery e.t.c.
ASBOS are good for putting a curb on someone's behaviour. Before it was difficult to stop someone from playing loud music, or trespassing in shops, or being part of a gang.
Now if they break the order they are fined or imprisoned.
Yes, the lefties don't like them because they are draconian, and in some cases they are quite heavy handed.
But they are needed, and I believe that someone who successfully ruins the quality of life for others should have some of their liberty removed.
To get an ASBO it needs to be balance of probabilities, but if you breach an ASBO you are in contempt of court, which is a criminal offence.
It's a great way to circumnavigate the criminal justice system.
The police still need to provide "beyond reasonable doubt" ie provide evidence of calls involving this particular person, how many complaints they have recieved against them, and other evidence.
An application for ASBO is made when we realise just how crappy a sentence that person will get if it goes to court.
i.e. a person who carries a weapon around with them all the time. Because courts don't take into account previous offences that person may get a few months inside, a fine or community serviice.
This person is obviously a danger to society.
If they get an ASBO it means they stand to get 5 years in prison.
We used one ASBO on a bloke who was drug dealing from his flat. There was enough evidence to secure funding for surveillance but it would have taken months to get enough for the drug dealing.
However the local council had recieved so many complaints against him due to noise, criminal damage caused by his friends e.t.c. he recieved an ASBO banning him from the entire area.
Regardless of what yu may think, they help the law abiding lead a peaceful life so I support them.
I wasn't criticising them, I was just pointing out that ASBOs are civil measures used to secure criminal penalties.
They serve a good purpose. As much as anything, they allow winos to put themselves in jail just to have a roof and a bed
Basically, in the past two weeks I have had to deal with a couple of youths shooting a BB gun at my windows and someone shot my cat with one. She now has three legs.
Having finally collared the little shits who had the guns, I informed the police who it was and the guns have been confiscated and we are on the road to ASBOs.
Apart from what happened to my cat, most of what these kids have been doing has been nuisance. No damaged cause to mine (or as I have since discovered many of my neighbour's) property and so no real criminal offence has been committed. The guns use are not gas-powered and therefore not covered under firearms legislation.
What ASBOs do is give us a chance to get some breathing space. From the police perspective they can not act and they can be [realatively] assured that no vigilante action will be taken.
Interesting one youth locally (next town) has recently breahced their ASBo and they are now serving tweleve months...
Contempt of court, innit.
ASBOs are a good idea, as it means the police can do something about the troublemakers. Doing something against specific troublemakers is a good thing; my only argument was against curfews, as this targets an entire class of people rather than the problem causers.
It's a good job I didn't collar that little twat who did that- I'd have handed him over to my mum
Although the burden of proof is not that of a criminal court, there is still a high burden of proof required.
And if you are terrorising people, they deserve to be protected from you.
i suppose you're right, somethings i think i'm just a bit too liberal
Most people would be a lot angrier!
When being caring and understanding is required, it should be used. Like with drug addicts.
But some people should be birched.
Yeah, I'm worried that the burden of proof isn't quite as higha s it should be, and those under ASBOs have not been convicted of anything, but sometimes drastic measures are needed.
I don't think ASBOs should be used widely, but for some people, particularly in harrassment cases, it is needed.
If ASBOs are maintained as they are then I thi9nk it si fair enough.
But yeah, I get what you mean. Soon its an ASBO for protestors in London, soon afetr that its anyone who doesn't vote for Bliar.
*sigh*
'Tis always the way- giving people rights gives them the ability to go and rape old grannies. But any other solution is too scary to contemplate.
Believe me, if there hadn't have been four of them together when I found him, I'd have twatted the little shit big time.
I may think I can handle myself, but not against four kids around half my age.
ASBO's can only be applied against individuals, not groups.
And depsite their flexibility they still have limits.
Plus the magistrates are normally apolitical. They are always very reluctant to enforce the whims of Mr Blair.