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Is there no major party of the left anymore?

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Re: Is there no major party of the left anymore?
    Originally posted by Renzokuken
    With 'New' Labour and the Conservatives being the two main political parties, with some cross party consensus and some of New Labour’s really Un traditional Labour like policies, for example Foundation Hospitals and Tuition Fees, could it be argued that there is no longer a major political party on the left of the political spectrum?

    To an extent, I believe this to be true due to ‘New’ Labour’s abandonment of traditional party views; however it could be argued that the Liberal Democrats are now the party of the left? Some of their policies are further left than those of New Labour, for example the Liberal Democrats want a 50% tax on the highest income bracket. Furthermore, the with the recent success of the party in By-elections in previously safe Labour seats, it could be possible to argue that left wing voters are abandoning Labour in favour of the Liberal Democrats. However, it is debatable to weather the Liberal Democrats can really be classed as a ‘major’ party, we will have to see what happens at the next general election for that.

    So those are my views on the matter, do you think that there Is a major party for the left or not?

    Sorry boy-o but a prominent left-wing/socialist party is not on the cards.

    Why?

    Well I think the electorate would not accept a leftist party. This has been evident since the time of Thatcher. Labour had to change when Maggie was PM as they were unelectable; Kinnock, John Smith and Tony Blair all realised this.

    As others have said the only truly socialist parties are minor ones like Respect, Socialist Labour party, etc. The only form of socialism which the electorate currently warm to is social democracy (which in essence is what Blair and New Labour's views can be classified under). A democratic socialist party like Old Labour wouldn't have much chance of being a party of government now.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    There is as much rejection and deep dislike of Thatcherism in this country as there is of the Labour government before her.

    No, im afraid that isnt true.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by The Matadore
    No, im afraid that isnt true.

    What would make you say that then?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Renzokuken
    What would make you say that then?
    Desire?

    Perhaps he doesn't want to admit that outside his bubble there is a widespread and intense hatred for Thatcher and everything she represented.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What would make you say that then?

    Because the vast of the majority of the British public have always been opposed to left wing governments and the disasters they create. Hence the economic destruction they created in the 70's.

    The British vote for essentially Conservative governments. Thatchers gov'ts, now Blairs gov'ts. Don't deny they are Conservative, you've said it yourself multiple times.
    Perhaps he doesn't want to admit that outside his bubble there is a widespread and intense hatred for Thatcher and everything she represented.

    Maybe in yopue lfet wing discussion groups and in Europe maybe, but most of Britain isn't as vitriolic as you or as hateful.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It is precisely because Britain isn't vitriolic and hateful that the dehumanised, ultra selfish, greedy and disgusting policies of Margaret Thatcher are widely rejected as the unnaceptable face of capitalism.

    Go out and talk to real people mate.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Go out and talk to real people mate.

    Thats exactly what I do, but unfortunately, the real people are not those ultra left, cloth cap wearing, die hard marxists that you associate with in political discussion.
    of Margaret Thatcher are widely rejected as the unnaceptable face of capitalism.

    Elected 3 times, surely they are not rejected. Notwithstanding the lies that the left spread about her and her policies.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I have never in 10 years met a single person that even remotely approaches the stereotype you present.

    You, on the other hand, must clearly spend your evenings at the local Conservative Club...

    But carry on nonetheless believing Thatcher is admired or appreciated by most people in this country.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by lukesh
    she is, it is very true. you have just failed to realise it and you never will. sad.

    I don't beleive tha someone can appreciate how she ruined the institutions of the state and made the poor poorer. How can anyone appreciate destroying the NHS apart from extreme neo-liberals.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't beleive that for a second she ruined the institutions of the state and made the poor poorer

    Why thank you! glad you agree.
    How can anyone appreciate destroying the NHS

    Learn some history, she did noting f the sort.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by The Matadore
    Why thank you! glad you agree.



    Learn some history, she did noting f the sort.

    Curse my tiredness, I have gone back and edited it to what I meant. Oh really? So why was the NHS in such a dire state following 18 years of Conservative rule?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by lukesh
    she is, it is very true. you have just failed to realise it and you never will. sad.
    Do you ever talk to people, instead of assuming what they think?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Oh really? So why was the NHS in such a dire state following 18 years of Conservative rule?

    It wasn't in a dire state, but thats not the point. The country as a whole, specifically the economy, was booming after 4 Tory governments. The changes Thatcher made to organised Labour and the victory of capital over labour meant that business was safe from socialism in Britain. Hence New Labours 8 years of uninterrupted economic growth.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Renzokuken
    Why was the NHS in such a dire state following 18 years of Conservative rule?

    The NHS, designed by a Labour Government, was never supposed to support this many people for so long in the way that it does.
    The[1978-1987] was characterised by the growing acknowledgement that clear financial bounds existed within which the NHS operated. It simply could no longer do everything that had become medically possible.

    The internal market was the Conservative Government's attempt to address problems, such as growing waiting lists, which had arisen in the 1980s as a result of NHS resources being constrained while demand rose inexorably.

    Before the 1990 Act a monolithic bureaucracy ran all aspects of the NHS. After the establishment of the internal market, 'purchasers' (health authorities and some family doctors) were given budgets to buy health care from 'providers' (acute hospitals, organisations providing care for the mentally ill, people with learning disabilities and the elderly, and ambulance services).


    It's struggling, but not because of any particular government or any particular policy. It simply doesn't work the way it was meant to.

    We should adopt the Canadian policy. Every year you buy a medical insurance card for $25, which goes to the Health Service, which is also supported by tax. Seems like a better system to me.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by The Matadore
    It wasn't in a dire state, but thats not the point. The country as a whole, specifically the economy, was booming after 4 Tory governments.
    Booming is the right word. But you forgot to add 'busting.'

    Thanks to this Labour government the economy is in the best and most stable and solid state it has ever been- something the Tories could only dream about.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Aladdin
    Booming is the right word. But you forgot to add 'busting.'

    Thanks to this Labour government the economy is in the best and most stable and solid state it has ever been- something the Tories could only dream about.

    To be fair the booming economy is due to conservative policies, all labour did was stabilise it. Equal merit in this case.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by lukesh
    spot on... the Conservatives began the boom as they quickly moderised our economy.

    Of course I'm spot on, do you not remember my original signature?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by lukesh
    lol, yes I do.

    As it is, I prefer pie to being right. mmm pie...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Aladdin
    Booming is the right word. But you forgot to add 'busting.'

    Thanks to this Labour government the economy is in the best and most stable and solid state it has ever been- something the Tories could only dream about.

    Sorry son, but the economy was strong under Major. That's fact.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by lukesh
    loooool :D

    I posted extensivly about pie in anything goes if you fancy looking for it.

    Anyway, back to the debate.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by kaptin pikarrrd
    Sorry son, but the economy was strong under Major. That's fact.
    But very volatile. This government has given the stability the Tories could never provide.

    We all know who are the only people who ever benefit from boom and bust periods.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Are you now suggesting that the 'boom and bust' periods did not exist, or that they were a good thing?

    The economy during the last year or two of the last Conservative government had improved much over previous years, that is true... but it was Labour that cemented the position, improved it and gave it stability.

    I'm sure the Tories have done lots of good things in their history... I just can't think of any.

    Was it them who signed us up to the then Common Market? That was a good thing...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Aladdin
    I'm sure the Tories have done lots of good things in their history... I just can't think of any.

    The handling of the coal strikes was well done. Despite the way things were going for the miners, things could have been dire for the country if the government hadn't stockpiled the stuff.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Either way, that's one good thing. Can you name any others?

    :p
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    No, good things the Tories have done in the last 50 years or so...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by lukesh
    i am onl 16, i wouldn't know. things i have heard.... modernised the economy, falklands is still british, first woman mp, the iron lady as she was talked.

    I'm only 2 years older than you and yet what I have heard is almost completely negative. It really depends on what political environment one is brought up in and what sources they assess.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Renzokuken
    I'm only 2 years older than you and yet what I have heard is almost completely negative. It really depends on what political environment one is brought up in and what sources they assess.

    That's certainly the case. Credit where it's due, Maggie Thatcher made an impact in, of all parties, the conservatives, to the extent she was the first female PM.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    actually the lib dems are advocatig more Conservative Partty policies like devolution and privitisation
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by wheresmyplacebo
    actually the lib dems are advocatig more Conservative Partty policies like devolution and privitisation

    Surely the Conservative Party are the ones most against devolution?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    sorry my mistake on that part
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