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vivisection
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
me and my friend were arguing earlier, shes a vegetarian who believes there should be no animal testing WHATSOEVER
but do you think we should ban it all together?
she was like "an animal is killed through experiments every 12seconds in labs in uk and 1 second in USA"
but do you think we should ban it all together?
she was like "an animal is killed through experiments every 12seconds in labs in uk and 1 second in USA"
0
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I don't agree with testing on animals unnecessarily, but if killing 1000 monkeys will save a human life then it is a price worth paying. If testing on animals develops anti-cancer drugs, say, then anyone who complains about it should have ALL medical treatments withdrawn from them. Permanently.
Anyway, ask your friend what she'd do if her daughter/boyfriend/best mate/parent had cancer and the only treatment available that'd give them a chance of survival was testing on animals.
Also tell her that if every person became a vegetarian then cows & chickens would become extinct, or at least endangered... and animal habitats would be ploughed down for fields to suit consumer demands... Ohh and that combine harvesters kill mice and animals like barn owls are dying out because their habitat and hunting ground is dying out because of farming & advances in technology.
I'm against cosmetic testing... but I'll sit on the fence for lab testing... there's good and bad in it...
Crap... look at the time!
*runs off to the clubs*
but yes we have to make sure the animals used are treated with as much compassion as is possible ...and i don't believe that is entirely possible all the time.
I know someone who has an incurable disease who is still against animal testing for all purposes.
Testing non-essential items on animals is wrong, but if it's me or 10 monkeys then my survival comes first.
On a random tangent, IAMS pet food was tested on animals. And not in the obvious way, the cut open and dissected animals to see how IAMS worked. Anyone who buys IAMS really shouldn't.
two dogs i have tried to feed ...EXPENSIVE dog food to. and thats just not me ... have both eaten it the first time and then refused bluntly to even recognise it as food ...one of my sons dogs is the same ...it doesn't even recognise it as food!
seriosly ...this isn't my usual mindlesnessness ...this is real shit!
god my head ...i'm sinking ...
As I've said, I'm neither for or against animal testing becauseif somebody close to me was ill, I'd want them to be saved...
But how reliable is it? Some drugs that send rats to sleep make mice hyper... and we never know how a drug is going to effect us. I mean we're not a nation of rats (well, not in literal terms), cats, or rhesus monkeys... we are homo sapiens... human beings and are different in some ways.
Again, another risk is that labrats are bred in cages and not exposed to the outside world, so their immune system is likely to be lower as they haven't faced danger or natural selection. They're also not as intelligent...
So I think there are risks with animal testing... And also... what about ethics?
In some cases I'm for it (although I'm more for certain types of holistic treatment), but never when talking about cosmetics... or with Nestlé and Kraft products... or weedkiller...
Cosmetic testing is just vanity and there's plenty of starving students that'll happily be tested on to get some money. But both my parents have had cancer, my dad's go diabeties and several friends and family members have had treatments that have all been tested on animals.
It's all very well standing by your own convictions for your own health. But trying to disrupt other people's life and other people's health, in the way animal rights protestors do pisses me off like you wouldn't believe. I will generally be pushed a long way before I'll resort to physical violence, but I'd probably kick their head in if they came anywhere near me with their 'Look what your health is doing to these animals!' crap. I'd give every member of every animal species on the planet to get my mum back.
My contribution to preventing animal cruelty is always getting pets from a rescue centre and being nice to them afterwards.
I don't like the thought of animal testing but I do think it plays a big part in medicine. Vivisection is cruel and shouldn't be done, but testing on animals in the case of trying to find ways to cure and prevent aids, cancer, HIV, etc. I find is acceptable.
Don't test "luxury" items on him, but if you want to test any drugs on him then that's fine with me
Animal test is a necessary evil. I don't like the though that animals are totured in such a way but I'd rather it was they who suffered and not me.
you never hear of them testing animal dugs on humans!
a lot of this can happen, where humans sell themselves to science, for testing, it their choice they consent animals do not!
I have no problem with medical advances, but things such as detergent, make-up, body lotion, wasking up liquid, dishwasher tablets, cosmetics, shampoo etc is just wrong, it really makes me angry hear that on of gods creatures is being killed, hurt and damaged to help another of gods creatures, we may be able to speak, have views, react to things etc, but that does not make us anymore superior than an ant for example.
we have our human rights, what do animals have? are they protected by anything?....no!
:rolleyes:
I thought vivisection was literally cutting live animals?!
Just to play devil's advocate though, rights for humans' exist only because humans say so (to me there ARE no 'natural rights'). So why can't animals have rights too?
I think most people would have a problem with such unnecessary cruelty. And interestingly enough many people found guilty of abusive crimes began by tormenting animals. But in the same way there are plenty of people who simple cannot see the distinction between research, and torture.
yes it was a man who wrote it.
yes of course we are far superior to mere insects . we look to the futer ...we write the past. we change and adapt and create and destroy ...none of much an ant can do or be.
an ant is an ant is an ant ...no matter what the fuck happens to them they will never learn more than they know today ...or all the todays of the last bazillion years.
out minds almost make us god like compared to every other creature on earth.
quoting the bible again ...it says you should never yoke a bull and an ass together to turn your wheel or work your land ...it would be cruel expecting the donkey to keep up with the bull.
see ...man can not only have these values but can spread them as well. they can even enshrine them in law.
no animal can do this ...no animal comes near us.
I subscribe to this view, although I could never have articulated myself that well. Really well said man.
Anyway, I do feel guilty from time to time about these labs, but like someone said before I think it's a necessary evil. As for what was said about microwaving cats and people who treat dogs/cats/any pets like pieces of crap, well they deserve to be strung up. It's a totally different topic though, to animal testing. So I'll shut up now
back in the seventies ici were exposed for making beagles smoke fags ...some just a few ...some endlessly.
to research about addiction disease etc etc.
turned out that the research showed nothing year on year that we wern't witnessing in the human population .
the experiments were basicaly raising government resarch fund money ...paying a half a dozen specialists a good lifestyle thankyou ...and it became something of an institute that time had forgotten.
animal rights activists fought for it to be stopped and stopped it was.
how much there is out there of this pointless stuff who knows ...but it will be out there.
And more to the point the things they do to the lab technicians. Seriously you can't even be the cleaning lady in one of those places without having your tyres slashed by one of those knob-jockies.
There should be tabs kept on them in the way we track football hooligans, they really don't behave any better. I am by no means trying to infringe on the basic right to have freedom of speech and expression, but these are not peacful protests. Nor are they spontainious... It's just rubbish.:mad:
I can't respect that stance. Can't respect people who don't view human lives as the most important thing on this earth.
I disagree with testing cosmetics on animals under any circumstances. I prefer to buy things that havent been tested on animals.
I disagree with psychological tests on animals. tests such as putting rats on electrocuted floors to see how they react. Its cruel and barbaric and I cant see any useful purpose to it.
Personally I'm of the view that if these animal rights protestors "protect" animals to the extent of killing people (as has happened) then we should test drugs on themn instead. It'd finally put them to some use in society.
Of course were going to try and protect our own species, but that doesnt make it fine or right to abuse other species. They werent put there just so weve got something to eat, play with, abuse, torture at will. If theyre being hurt to save humans, then maybe thats a necessary evil, and I am OK with it because im inclined to want my species to survive, and id want those medicines if it was me who needed them. It doesnt mean its RIGHT to use those animals, but its forgivable. We should respect those animals that weve killed for our benefit or had killed on our behalf.
People shouldnt be so ungrateful and act like weve got some sort of god given right over the rest of the world.
as for a god given right there are those who would argue that ...'god gave all the fish of the sea and wild animals and the domesticated animals in subjection to man ...'
genesis i think ....no god isn't anything like phil collins.
If its not OK to do this to our pets, then why is it OK to do it in a laboratory?
Even if these experiments were important to do the first time, I dont see why they need to be done again and again and again. Each product being made `new and improved` - but at what cost?
Yet still biologically different to other animals.
As for people who'd rather die than be cured by a product tested on animals, I respect that as they're standing by what they believe and not letting their morals drop through fear.
Because people are funny like that... I mean there seems to be a heirarchy of animals and how much rights they seem to have... Perhaps it's a heirarchy of cuteness... I mean it seems Ok for some people to go hunting foxes, but if you were hunting wild cats, or using a puppy as a dart biard you'd get done for animal cruelty.
Some people bitch about the meat trade in Korea because they eat dogs... yet will happily tuck in to a KFC which is hardly humane in itself either.
Like I say, I don't agree with testing on animals but I don't disagree with it in some rare cases. As a species we've lived millions of years without needing all these treatments, but I guess we've softened up. But saying that I've been on fluoxitine, cipramil and other anti-depressents and along with therapy they've saved my life (they're probably tested on animals).
I think people tend to be too comfortable these days (myself included) but ah well... We can keep on destroying the world in which we live, drugging ourselves up and weakening our immune systems. It just decreases the likelihood of us passing on the best genes and the longeivity of the human race... Which in a sense ain't too much of a bad thing.