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Man or woman ??
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
After watching Big Brother and reading the thread in entertainment forum I wondered what your views are on Nadia who is in the big brother house and who has had a sex change op.
Now I see her as a woman, because thats all I know her as. She has never been male to me so why would I think of her as anything else?
What I dont like is when you are walking in the street and you can tell someone is male and yet they have make up on and stubble, they look masculine and they have not had the op. To me they are men.........end off.
Id hate to think I was in the public toilets and someone like this walked in because they are not female, they have no right going into female toilets.
What are your views ? when a man has the full sex change is he in your eyes still a man ? is he a woman?
Now I see her as a woman, because thats all I know her as. She has never been male to me so why would I think of her as anything else?
What I dont like is when you are walking in the street and you can tell someone is male and yet they have make up on and stubble, they look masculine and they have not had the op. To me they are men.........end off.
Id hate to think I was in the public toilets and someone like this walked in because they are not female, they have no right going into female toilets.
What are your views ? when a man has the full sex change is he in your eyes still a man ? is he a woman?
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Cross dressers and transvestite should not be allowed to use womens toilets.
Worth bearing in mind that cross dressing / tranvestism bears no relation to gender dysmorphia. One is about someone who likes to assume the clothing / roles of the opposite gender, the other is a real psychological condition where a person feels they are (or based on some genetic studies / medical conditions actually are) the opposite gender.
Lets assume you have known Jason for 15 years, he has been a friend and you have worked with him for the last ex amount of years.......as a man.
He starts to come to work in skirts and make up. After whatever length of time he decides to go the full hog and have the op.
Is he male or female in your eyes ?
You see I dont know wether I could actually accept a friend who had the sex change and then see them as a woman. I will have known them for ex amount of years as male so I dont think Id ever see them as a woman.
But if Id never known the person then they would be female.
does that make sense
But it isn;t as easy as that.
Post-op people are women (or men if they are going the otehr way). Pre-op people are more difficult to classify, but really they are their original gender.
Note that legally a person cannot change gender- their legal identity is the one they were born with. So a post-op "woman" cannot marry a man.
an overview of the gender recognition act -
view on the gender recognition act
The full act -
Gender Recognition Act
Some commonly asked questions -
Department of constitutional affairs
this came up in a pub convo last week talking about hardcore lesbians, who put on fake facial hair and everything, who not even my best mate who lesbian who dresses low maintenence doesnt get why they do it!?
Basically I would never discriminate because of their decisions, and would try and accept them as what they'd chosen to become..and what they felt they'd really been all along. But I don't know if I'm a "good enough person" to put that into practise. I have to be honest, and it's not something I have experience of.
As for cross-dressers, I definitely agree they shouldn't be able to do things like use ladies toilets, not because I think they'd be peeking or anything
I agree. I don't like the fact she came over here to get it done on the NHS tho.
Corse it defines you're sex! You can be a woman or bloke inside. But you cant have both a vagina and a penis!
You are a man if you have a penis and you are a woman if you have a vagina.
Personally i wouldnt know what to call nadia...
I see Nadia as a woman because ive never seen her as a man.
I dont like what Nadia is doing in the house, she is having adult contact wih the housemates ( licking the jam of her boobs) and I personally think the other housemates should have been told by her because some people may still class her as male, we dont know their views on this and to be licking jam of boobs and then find out about Nadias past could cause the housemates to be a bit annoyed.
I think when someone has a sex change and they then go on to meet a partner that should be one of the first things they tell them. They shouldnt leave it months into the relationship.
if i've knows someone for a while and they have a sex-change then i hope i would respect their wishes and think of them as that new gender. im fairly open minded about things like that anyway. it must be so hard for that person wanting to be a different gender-its a psycholigical disorder. therefore i'd support them as much as i could.
It does remind me of a recent Sky TV programme, though, where they got men to chat up this "girl", only for the winner to discover she was a transvestite he.
Thanks Jim V, I'm glad they've fixed that law at last.
Sorry I disagree, if you are doing something of a sexual nature then they should make people aware. Just everyday life things then yes thats ok, but when you are getting male and females to lick your boobs then its time to come clean.
But really it is a private matter.
Do I see them as men or women? Neither. They're not men, since they don't have any of the things that characterize a man, and they're not women, since their DNA doesn't contain the double X chromosome. The shortest thing I could say to describe them is "human beings that began their lives as males and changed their appearance to resemble females".
And I totally agree with becky in that it should be among the first thing they say.
Do I see them as men or women? Neither. They're not men, since they don't have any of the things that characterize a man, and they're not women, since their DNA doesn't contain the double X chromosome. The shortest thing I could say to describe them is "human beings that began their lives as males and changed their appearance to resemble females".
so they have a genetic disease and are sick?
Well they aren't.
Genetically they aren't a woman but physically they aren't a man.
Who knows? Who cares?
Gender is partly a social construct anyway.
Not at all. Every woman has a double X. Men have an X & Y. Diring conception the egg will carry an X, but the sperm can carry either and it is the spern which determines the sex of the fertilised egg.
In Nadia's instance this process has been changed through surgical procedures and so, whilst genetically Nadia is a man, physically she isn't.
With regards sexual contact, I don't think it should be the first things which is said in a relationship... I mean:
Man: Would you like a drink
Woman: Yes please. I've had a sex change you know.
... would be a little freaky, but I do think that the subject should proceed any physical relationship. To me that would just be courtesy. Besides if you cannot discuss such a sensitive subject at that point then you really should reconsider if you should be sleeping with them anyway...
So you would be ok if you were at the pub, got friendly with a woman, started kissing her and then she tells you that she had a sex op ?
I dont think they should tell people within minuites of meeting someone but once you even think about touching/kissing then its your duty to tell that peosn. If you dont want to tell them thats fine, but dont do anything slightly sexual because in my eyes thats wrong. Ideally though tell the person in the beginning.
Yes but I agree that there is a boundary, and that should be a sexual one.
We all ahve secrets shich we initially keep from potential partners. For some it's that they don't want kids, for others is sexual hang-ups or "perversions" but we don't address these until we get well into a relationship.
I cannot see any difference here.
If you are willing to sleep with someone withing hours or meeting them, then you really have left yourself open to something like this. IMHO.
I didnt mean sleeping with someone though i was talking about the cuddling/kissing. Not everyone goes on to have sex on a first date.
Am i reading what you say as its ok to kiss and cuddle and get close in that way before you come out and say youve had a sex change ? I feel that there shouldbe no closeness of any kind till they have told them they have had a sex change.