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post office privitisation

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
what do you think?

i think its always been a bad idea as it a public service of which private companies will milk the business section whilst screwing over normal postal users, all the post offices that will shut and all, of which help so many people, especially in rural areas

always gud to bring up a new topic :D

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    JsTJsT Posts: 18,268 Skive's The Limit
    I doubt anything will improve the awful state the PO is in.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by JsT
    I doubt anything will improve the awful state the PO is in.

    I find the PO quite good, it is the Royal Mail which is in tatters!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    it was removed from government ownership a few yrs bk i believe, it just reicieves subsidy these days, on the build up to allowing other companies to provide regular mail servies, which means eventually small ruralcommunites will lose services as they are unprofitable
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    JsTJsT Posts: 18,268 Skive's The Limit
    Originally posted by BumbleBee
    I find the PO quite good, it is the Royal Mail which is in tatters!

    Yes, I was foolishly classing them as one and the same.

    The Royal Mail are wank, the Post Office is most useful.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The privatisation of the railways did wonders. Or maybe not :chin:. And the NHS has become semi-privatised with it hiring things rather than buying them; hospitals, cleaning services etc etc, and that's buggered it up too. MRSA being one big fuck of a problem and generally down to bad cleaning.

    Privatisation doesn't work because companies are out to make a profit, at least with the government all the money is spent for our benefit (even if it's spent unwisely, ie: john prescott)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by TheShyBoyInTheCorner

    Privatisation doesn't work because companies are out to make a profit, at least with the government all the money is spent for our benefit (even if it's spent unwisely, ie: john prescott)
    Of course.
    Car companies don’t make cars because they are out to make a profit.
    Computer companies don’t work because they are out to make a profit.
    Farmers don’t work because they are out to make a profit.
    You can’t buy watches, shoes, CD’s, pens, jeans, furniture, bikes, books, ice cream because everybody who makes it are out to make a profit.
    And… your parents work to make a profit, don’t they? So the don’t work. And you don’t intend to work too, because you want to make a profit. Or you don’t want? You prefer to work for free for your all life?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ^
    totally missing the point (for a change :rolleyes: )

    Organisations that provide essential public services (Post Office, utilities, puboic transport etc) should be run for the public good, not for private profit.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Organisations that provide essential public services ( food, clothes, cars, houses, books, tools, medicines) are run for profit. If they were run for public good you’d have quite crappy things… if you would have them at all.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    No, they should not be run for private profit. When they are, they provide shitty service as their only remit is to constantly increase profits. Safety gets over looked, its what happened with the railways in the UK.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Shitty service?
    Compare a service provided by any café, supermarket, petrol station, book shop, hair-design salon, internet provider with a service in any government’s hold office.
    Which one is shittier?
    And even if you find a shitty private service you are free to send it to hell and choose another. How the hell can you choose another police, another post service, another court, another custom office, another tax office? And what will happen with you if you send it to hell?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The Royal Mail is only being so bad at the minute because they, in the name of profit, cut all the Travelling Post Offices, and started moving all mail by road or air.

    It takes longer now, they can't sort it en route, and if there's a bit of fog (like there often is at 5am) they can't use the planes.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    But to answer the wider question.

    The private sector is only interested in profit- it is what it does. Therefore the users of the service, and the staff, are ignored in favour of profit, and the service suffers. The only privatisation that has really worked has been British Airways, and that's because there is a market. Most public services are effectively monolpolies, so market forces cannot work. If the 8.10 bus doesn't turn up, you'll still be there for the 8.40 one by the same company- no money lost.

    The puiblic sector is only interested in the staff, however. Instead of being interested in profit of the big company, they are only interested in personal profits. If the staff don't get their own way (i.e. big fat pay rises) the staff strike, and ordinary people get left stood at the platform anyway.

    The public sector is not inherently better, as instead of profit there is militant trade unionism. It is probably slightly better than the private sector in delivering some services, such as healthcare, and slightly worse in other services- for all the faults of the bus industry now, it is still a lot better than the National Bus Company.

    ShyBoy- MRSA is not about cleaning the hospitals, the term "superbug" means that the MRSA is resistant to most anti-biotics currently being used, and certainly all the generic ones. This is not because of bad cleaning, it's because for 20 years people have demanded anti-biotics on demand, and been given them, so the bacteria have gradually built up a resistance.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Kermit
    ShyBoy- MRSA is not about cleaning the hospitals, the term "superbug" means that the MRSA is resistant to most anti-biotics currently being used, and certainly all the generic ones. This is not because of bad cleaning, it's because for 20 years people have demanded anti-biotics on demand, and been given them, so the bacteria have gradually built up a resistance.

    That's why it's so dangerous and how it first came about, but the reason there are so many cases is because nurses don't wash their hands and things like that small article here
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Excuse me Kermit but I absolutely don’t agree.
    You write ‘The private sector is only interested in profit ‘, it’s true but it’s equally true for a public sector. All its employees from high rank bureaucrats to school teachers work for profit. The difference is not what they work for but in which way they get their profits.
    Any private businessman gets his money just because customers agree to pay for his goods and services. If they don’t he gets no profit at all. So customers’ will is his way to make money. Not so with public sector. Its customers are too distant from practical officials and voting once in several years is not a way to change their behaviour. An official doesn’t depend on customers, he gets his salary regardless whether well or badly he does his job… Not so though, he gets more when he works worse.
    Look here, if your barber ( f*ng capitalist who owns means of production like scissors etc) does his work bad you find another barber, so you don’t pay him anymore. But in the public sphere things work in the opposite way, if some service is bad it gets more funding and subsidies.
    What do you ( and every sine man) do if some private enterprise works bad? You stop paying.
    What do you ( and other voters, taxpayers, ‘the public’- and consequently the government) do when some public enterprise works bad? You pay them more!
    So in private sphere good work is rewarded, bad work is punished. In public sphere good work is punished, bad work is rewarded.
    That tragic day of 9/11 is the best example I know. American intelligence agencies ( they are public sector of course) hadn’t manage to prevent the terrorists’ attack although they had all information they needed( quite a common thing in any bureaucratic structure that any public sector is). What did happen then? These agencies have got more money, more staff, more privileges. But what would have happened if they had managed to catch the terrorists? They would have got nothing!!!
    Don’t blame ’stupid Bush’ in this, it is a common way in which all public services work. Look at schools and roads, hospitals and the police, post and the parliament and you’ll see the same thing- the worse job the more money.
    Why can’t you see that ‘public sector’ road is the road of waste, regression. destruction… Isn’t Soviet Union’s lesson a sound lesson for you?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    labrat, but in the public sector most of the sevices are near virtual monopolies with no room for real competition and people that use them normally HAVE TO USE them
    all the time like with railways ie commuters are the main users, so theres no competition of routes of anything
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by wheresmyplacebo
    labrat, but in the public sector most of the sevices are near virtual monopolies with no room for real competition and people that use them normally HAVE TO USE them
    all the time like with railways ie commuters are the main users, so theres no competition of routes of anything
    I ungerstand what you mean. Natural monopolies, networks especially, right? At least my stupid college textbook claims it.
    I know the answer ( the greatest network in the world is... what do you think? Yes, Internet! Absolutely private and anarchic stuff! So think further...) but it is not an easy task for me ( excuse me but I am not a professor of economics) to explain why natural monopolies may be parts of free market. But I'll try. I should read some stuff. So... later. OK?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    fair enough... least you gave a decent reponse unlike some on these forums cough cough luke
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    LabRat, in theory the ideal of a free market is best- if something is rubbish either it gets better or it dies.

    However, when it comes to public services this does not work. It can work where there is natural competition, such as on (some) bus routes, but if there is no competitor there can be no competition, and if there is no competition there can be no good service.

    Everyone works for profit, but your argument about the bosses earning more for bad service is flawed- it happens even more in the private sector. If a private company doesn't make enough money, the Government bails it out- this happens in transport and healthcare especially.

    There is also the issue of communal good- evening and Sunday bus services lose money, in a truly free market these would just be withdrawn, and this is bad for people who rely on bus services, for instance.

    Of course, there is one interesting fact abhout the rail industry at the minute. A company wished to set up a competing train service between newcastle, Leeds and Manchester, but the Government refused to allow this as "a good competing service will impact upon the current franchise holder". Eh? Either we have a free private service, or a full public service, but not a controlled monopoly, where we can't have competing trains because the franchisee might lose profit.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Kermit
    LabRat, in theory the ideal of a free market is best-

    In theory maybe. Same as communism is fine in theory. Sadly, theory and practice are two completely different things.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Blagsta
    In theory maybe. Same as communism is fine in theory. Sadly, theory and practice are two completely different things.

    Exactly.

    For some services the private sector CAN be better, but in most public sector services it can't.

    And as I said above, sometimes the private sector isn't allowed to be better in the public sector.
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