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Pathetic.
In any case, that list is correct. Please don't insult anyone's intelligence by pretending those campaigns didn't happen. So I'll ask you again: can you tell us how many of those nations ended up with a true democracy as a result of America's bombings?
To quote the favourite word of a buddy of yours, your levels of delusion are simply breath-taking.
For your information, Chile had a democratically elected government (if you don't know what 'democratically' means, check it on a dictionary) when the US decided to assist a barbaric fascist lunatic to stage a coup d'etat, remove democracy and install a repulsive, murdering fascist dictatorship in its place. Many thousands were killed and tens of thousands were the subject of gruesome torture and violations by Pinochet's death squads.
One favourite trick of them was to have female prisoners raped by especially trained dogs. Go back to your God now and try to explain him how you see fit to justify your support for the anti-Christian, murdering and plain evil foreign policies of your beloved US government.
I'm not even going to comment on Uzbekistan, Georgia, Saudi Arabia, the death squads of Central and South America financed and supported by the CIA or the dozens upon dozens of nasty little regimes your god-fearing government has supported over the years. Given the blinkers you appear so willing to wear in order to make your support for your government compatible with your alleged Christian beliefs, what would be the point?
Why cant you understand this???
Governments work with the BIG PICTURE!! ALL GOVERNMENTS DO!
But when its the US you get right in there with all the tasteless but necessary things they did.
Communism had to be prevented from spreading, the USSR had to be stopped, but I suppose they were the good guys, right?
Chile's wasn't a communist regime. Read some fucking history. It was a democratically elected left wing government, not particularly more left wing than any socialist government in Europe (including Old Labour in here) but Salvador Allende had the temerity of disagreeing with The Master's policies.
I suppose you would advocate the US invading Germany and replacing its democracy with another fascist dictator. At the end of the day, the man in government there is a socialist who openly disagrees with US foreign policy- just like Salvador Allende.
And no, most governments DON'T have the habit of supporting murdering scumbags and looking the other way as their little puppet tortures and kills thousands of his own people, just because it suits their interests to have such monster in power. On that, the good old freedom-loving US government is on a league on its own.
Go on, explain to me again why it was justified for the US to remove a democracy in Chile and install a murdering fascist in its place. :rolleyes:
Get a fucking grip.
It had strong sympathy with the USSR, similar to Cuba, and the US policy of containment still applied.
The US had to support some tasteless regimes during the Cold War, but only to stop the spread of the most murderous regime of all - the USSR.
Thats because most governments dont have to make that choice.
You naivete is astouiding.
Naw... "pathetic" would be the preferred ignorance of some WHO POST HERE who refuse to acknowledge that meeting with a representative of the Viet Cong - while still a naval officer - in Paris, IS the act of treason.
The "Vietnam Veterans Against the War" was a collection of assembled by the fakir John Kerry to construct a political base for him to enter politics... his whole reason for entering theNavy.
Opposition to the Vietnam War does not make John Fakir Kerry a traitor... his acts of treason most certainly do.
Have you totally and completely lost your fucking mind?
Yep. And do you know why they don't have to make that choice? Because it is not the policy of most governments to think they are the supreme rulers to the planet, superior to all other peoples and cultures, and with an undeniable right to appropriate other people's natural resources and to murder anyone who opposes them.
It is you I'm afraid who have consistently shown a breathtaking naivety in your unconditional support for absolutely anything your beloved idol the US government does.
Though there are very worrying elements in the bullshit you spout that can hardly be regarded as naive. You have shown a disgusting disregard for the value of human life, sovereignty and property. Please don't ever lecture us again about good old USA stepping in to stop the Balkans war or anywhere else because you have proven not to give a flying fuck about people, lives or respect for others. Not when it stands in the way of your idols.
Such nastiness I have never encountered in someone of your age. I can only hope you're either on a wind up mission or that when you grow up so will your humanity.
Because they do not have the RESPONSIBILITY as the worlds pre-eminent military and economic power to maintain the peace.
The whole UN based world order is founded on the notion that American power is supreme and can enforce law and justice throughout the world.
Whenever America uses its power you have a go at them for being murderous thugs, whenever they dont its the old 'the US sit back and let it happen.
Be damned if you do, be damned if you dont.
All countries think they are the best, just look at France. When has America ever tried to conquer the planet? Oh, never, that was Germany and the other European imperial powers.
This would be Saddam.
I do not think everything the US government is the correct course of action, but I do understand that it is a real world out there, and that if the US is making a concerted attempt to sort things out - I will support them. Governments must make difficult decisions, sometimes they have to support tasteless and brutal regimes, but it is the responsibiliyty of governments (especially the US) to look at the larger strategic picture.
No, I havent. I am the one who supported a war to remove a tyrannical thug whose soldiers used rape rooms and mass graves. I am the one who is against an European Union which will reduce national sovereignity of European nations to the point where they cant govern themselves. I have always been for individual property rights and against communism and collectivism which you so treasure.
If the USa doesnt intervene to stop things like that happening who else will?
Im on the Right, I support
Because they do not have the RESPONSIBILITY as the worlds pre-eminent military and economic power to maintain the peace.
The whole UN based world order is founded on the notion that American power is supreme and can enforce law and justice throughout the world.
Whenever America uses its power you have a go at them for being murderous thugs, whenever they dont its the old 'the US sit back and let it happen.
Be damned if you do, be damned if you dont.
All countries think they are the best, just look at France. When has America ever tried to conquer the planet? Oh, never, that was Germany and the other European imperial powers.
This would be Saddam.
I do not think everything the US government is the correct course of action, but I do understand that it is a real world out there, and that if the US is making a concerted attempt to sort things out - I will support them. Governments must make difficult decisions, sometimes they have to support tasteless and brutal regimes, but it is the responsibiliyty of governments (especially the US) to look at the larger strategic picture.
No, I havent. I am the one who supported a war to remove a tyrannical thug whose soldiers used rape rooms and mass graves. I am the one who is against an European Union which will reduce national sovereignity of European nations to the point where they cant govern themselves. I have always been for individual property rights and against communism and collectivism which you so treasure.
If the USa doesnt intervene to stop things like that happening who else will? I have no respect for terrorists, murderers, dictators or damp squib 'liberals' who dont have the balls to make a massive decisions which may change millions of peoples lives for the better in the future.
Nor have I encountered such pig-headed closed mindedness when anyone critiscises the UN, the left, the EU or anything with a liberal stance. It is quite obvious these organisations have serious problems.
Nastiness? Excuse me, but I do not open bottles of Champagne when old men die and I am not for a barbaric system like Communism which seeks to turn humanity into a faceless mass.
Ahh, playing the 'age' card, a true sign of desperation and lack of true debating material.
Especially as everything else is not actually discussing the topic, and instead a left versus right battle.
That you mention the UN shows how much you know what you're saying :rolleyes: . Funny nonetheless... Would you please care to tell us when and where did the UN authorise the removal of the democratic government of Allende in Chile (or the invasion of Grenada, or the bombing of Guatemala, etc etc ad nauseam)?
No? How come?
As a matter of fact the UN determines when armed action is necessary not the US. Don't give me any bullshit about US responsibility because no one has elected it to the post and more importantly such decisions are not left to the US government to take unilaterally.
More generalisations, prejudice and bullshit...
Now?
Have you heard of the Project for the New American Century?
Yes, and their empires crumbled. Dubya and his sinister neo-con chums should read some history.
Funny you mention him. Do you know who supported him and financed him? Do you know to which end?
The only picture the US government is looking at is his own long term plan for total strategic, military, economical and political dominance of the world. How can you be so bleeding naïve???
If the US were interested in peace one iota, for instance, it would have long stepped in to stop the butchery in the Middle East instead of giving unlimited support and protection to a certain side only. It is because of this disgraceful protectionism and absurd military aid to that certain side that there have been 4 decades of death, misery and destruction in the region, and instability to the world at large.
Open your eyes FFS.
And who yet supported installing another thug just as bad in another country? Are you taking the fucking piss?
Rather unrelated to this (and not true either).
Unless the property in question is oil that belongs to those dirty Arabs you consider inferior to us of course.
Oh dear oh dear oh dear…
No. You don’t have respect for terrorists, murderers, dictators etc who are not in the US’ good books. For those terrorists, murderers and dictators (Central America’s death squads, Pinochet, bin Laden and Saddam Hussein during the 80s, and President Karimov of Uzbekistan and the Butcher of Tel Aviv today to name but a few) you have ALL THE RESPECT IN THE WORLD, simply because your idols in the White House have a use for them and benefit economically or politically.
You truly give a new fucking meaning to the word hypocrisy.
1. Nothing wrong with celebrating the death of an evil murderer racist. You on the contrary overlook the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians across the globe for the mere reason that it is a small price to pay for your idols’ geopolitical plans. Which one do you think is worse?
2. I am not for communism as you well know. I have simply pointed out to your ludicrous attempts to put communism at the same level as fascism while ignoring the fact that capitalism is responsible for so much death, poverty and misery everywhere.
3. Not playing the age card at all, just hoping that such unbelievable levels of hatred, hypocrisy and prejudice are just a passing phase. Because it certainly is unnatural to find such sentiments in most people, let alone those who have not exactly lived and experienced a lot…
Do a bit of research. Read some history. Look up the word ‘hypocrisy’ on a dictionary. Or even better, do a bit of traveling to see if that does the trick. Because things are indeed looking gloomy at present.
Because the US is the only country capable of asserting itself properly in any corner of the world and stopping injustice. Who else would? The Chinese? the French? Come on, use your head.
Yes , I mentioned the UN, the only reason the UN works at all is becuase the USA backs it. The whole post WW2 world order is founded on the UN backed up by America military power.
It didnt, so what? The UN is a talking shop for maintaining the post WW2 status quo. If you want real change in the world and a real end to poverty then major reform of the UN is needed.
The UN may give approval for action, but who usually carries it out? The USA.
I think you'll find that the United States Governemnt determines when its armed forces are to be used, not the General Assembly...
But the US does have the responsibility!! It is so much more powerful than the rest of the world that it would be obscene if it didnt act.
Yes, this is a generalisation, you can apply it to any country. It is not just the US which thinks its the best country in the world to live. Predjudice? I merely picked France because it is the centre of your beloved Europe. Im sure the same would apply to a country like Australia, for example.
Yes, does it say there that America is trying to conquer the world?
The British empire lasted over 200 years, so far the Americans have had about 80 in charge, long way to go yet. But I wont deny the US will crumble eventually, all nations do.
Yes, but at the time this was considered the best strategic move. They say a week is a long time in politics, therefore 20 years is a fucking millenia.
Ok, firstly, military - the US has been the pre-eminent military power in the world since WW2 (the USSR was never as strong). Now it is so far ahead of the world that its military dominance is assured. Economic - the US is the most powerful already. Political - ditto.
BUT has America ever invaded a land and kept it? The 51 states are the same as they were at the end of WW2.
I assume you would advocate giving an equal amount of military aid to Hizbollah, Islamic Jihad et al? The US has been giving cash and aid to Arab countries for years. Yes, Saudi are brutal, but the honest truth is that the oil of Saudi is far too precious to risk instability in the kingdom.
No, the reason that there have been 4 decades of war is because the Arabs cannot stand having a Jewish homeland in the Middle East, no matter how justified and democratic this state is. (and lets face it, Israel is the only true democracy in the region).
Did I say I supported it? It was necessary at the time to prevent Comunism from spreading in South America. Besides, who cares about this? The fact is I supported this war of liberation, and you didnt.
When you start accusing me of things which are completly unfounded, then I think its fucking relevant. Of course its true, the Eu erodes the sovereignity of nation states, do you deny it?
Of course oil is an exception, the whole world needs it. Oil supplies must be secure for the whole world. I do not consider arabs inferior.
Madness, READ SOME HISTORY BOOKS THAT ARE NOT WRITTEN BY THE USSR! LEARN HOW GOVERNMENT AND POLITICS WORK! RACIST? Do you know anything? Let me give you an example of Reagans obvious disgust for racism. While he was President, a black family moved into the Washington suburbs. The KKK burnt a racist slogan into their lawn, the next day Reagan personally was there telling the world what he thought of it.
Rubbish, Ive nevr said I 'respected' any dictator. Who is 'the butcher of tel aviv'?
Communism is as bad as facism, any reasonable person can see this. So far Communist countries have actually been the cause of more death in history than facist ones.
I dont ignore capitalisms faults, becasue it does have some. But whats the alternative, Socialism? Its proven that capitalism is the most dynamic, stable and democratic economic model humans have come up with so far.
No need to be so condescending there, Ive read plenty and have travelled extensively.
I think you need to read up on how government works and the choices that governments have to make. A thourough history of the post WW2 world and geo-politics would also serve you well. Better yet, get elected as PM and experience the tough decisions leaders have to make every day that dont involve a mad moral code that is completly unworkable and would result in the UK being the laughing stock of the whole world.
Are you so blinded by the 'mighty' US armed forces that you think no other country can carry out peace-keeping roles?
Bearing in mind that that it would not be the role of a peace-keeping army to bomb a country to fuck, as the US has a habit of doing, the B-52s and expensive stealth planes become rather irrelevant.
If by ''backing'' the UN you mean not paying the money it owes to it as well as vetoing and derailing resolutions and insulting and spying on fellow Security Council members, then yes the US is sure "backing" the UN.
I agree with you there. An immediate end to the right of veto would more or less do the trick.
Wrong.
When acting on its own accord, which is about 99.99999% of all cases when American forces have been in action. If and when the US commits troops to a UN task force, those troops remain under the command of the UN.
If only Matadore, if only.
If you are so supremely naive as to think the US invaded Iraq because it gave a flying fuck about human rights, dictators or world peace then I wonder whether it's worth for my to waste any further bandwidth on this topic... :rolleyes:
You picked up France because you hate the "cheese-eating surrender monkeys", as you are so fond of calling.
Having a high opinion of one's country or even believing is the best place to live in the world is one thing; thinking your country is superior to all others and believing it is your right to invade, bomb and kill countries at will to protect your interests is quite another.
Which is exactly what you have been defending all along.
Tell me again about how we should go in and steal Saudi Arabia's oil reserves...
All over Matadore, all over :rolleyes:
Does not need to crumble as a nation. All it will crumble is its neo-con driven, imperialistic plans. And sooner than the murdering Republican scumbags think.
What strategy would that be? The strategy of putting oil and financial gains for the oil barons in America before international law and the sanctity of human life?
Pathetic.
It doesn't need to keep and annex anything does it? As it has been proven over the last few decades, and especially over the last 3 years, the US government will bribe, bully, threaten, punish and invaded any nation that does so much as object to any of its plans.
No I would advocate cutting all military and financial aid until Israel fulfils its obligations and fully withdraws to 1967 borders (as per countless UN resolutions), removes all illegal settlements (as per countless UN resolutions) and stops terrorising, oppressing, bullying and murdering men, women and children (as per countless UN resolutions).
How proud must the CEOs of Boeing feel when they see another Israeli Apache helicopter firing a missile into a crowd blowing civilians to pieces. What awesome display of power and superiority by their fine war machines!
And for the millionth time in the last two days, the world champion of hypocrisy does it again.
I really would like to see whether you keep a straight face when you tell us about how you support America's campaigns to "liberate" and "bring freedom" to those poor oppressed people and then say how all of that can be safely overlooked when it comes to making maximum profit for the oil barons of the West.
Vintage.
See above re 1967, settlements, UN resolutions and murdering children.
As for the "democracy" bit, Israel is a democracy in nothing but the name. True democracies don't discriminate and oppress its own citizens who happen to follow a different faith or are of a different race. True democracies don't indulge in the catalogue of crimes against humanity the Israeli government has and continues to do. True democracies don't murder children on a weekly basis (and I'm talking murder, the deliberate targeting and shooting of children by dehumanised soldiers) and then refuse to even prosecute the soldiers involved.
With democracies like that, give me a dictatorship any time...
Are you really that obtuse or is your worshipping of US policy even more pathetic than it appears?
How easy it must all appear to American Republicans to continue to con the public when there are people like you who actually swallow their bullshit whole.
So a left-wing democratic government would have spread communism through South America now would it?
Not that it should be the fucking business of those fucking cunts to interfere with the democratic process in foreign nations and help overthrow them in favour of a brutal murderer a thousand times more sadistic than Saddam, but there you are...
But in any case, it wasn't fucking going to "spread communism" through South America so change the record.
God, even Greenhat had the decency to admit that what the US did in Chile was wrong. Have you got not a trace of decency or humanity in you?
It wasn't a war of liberation as you know it. Not that you give a shit about the well being of others, as you have proven.
To be continued below…
Anyways, back to the topic...
Rubbish. Gold is essential for the economy. Water is essential for life. I guess you would advocate invading any country to protect the US' interests. At the end of the day, what's a few hundred thousand lives to ensure Americans can fill up their tanks for a few dollars eh?
And yes Matadore, you said on these very boards that you considered the lives of Arabs inferior to those of Westerners and Jews. Do you really want me to dig it up?
Though if you deny it perhaps for the first time ever you are showing a hint of remorse over something. That would be a remarkable thing indeed...
Reagan was an Apartheid supporter who consistently fought resolutions, motions and attempts to further punish the regime. Go on, explain to me how supporting the Apartheid is not racist or can be justified.
Did they have any oil reserves I'm not aware of or something?
The war criminal responsible for the deaths of thousands of women and children 2 decades ago, and who instead of be rotting in jail for his crimes is now sitting in office and overseeing the murders of many more innocents.
Do you want any more clues?
Free market capitalism is as bad as fascism, any reasonable person can see this. Free market capitalism is the cause of appalling conditions, death and misery for more than 2 billion people.
Social democracies, which involve left wing socialist governments (though some would debate they can be defined as socialists) are the most advanced working system there is. Free market capitalism coupled with right wing intolerance and belligerence are every last bit as abhorrent and despicable as fascism- and often seen walking hand in hand, as Thatcher, Reagan and Bush have proven.
Read the wrong books and not travelled long and far enough, if you don't mind my saying.
You could start with a trip to Chile. Or Central America. Or Iraq for that matter. Talk to the people raped by Pinochet's dogs or tortured by Saddam's squads and explain to them why their ordeals were necessary to preserve America's way of life (and its oil barons' bank balances) at the time, and why it is also okay for America to decide when the brutal dictator in question must be removed, by force and war if necessary.
I'm sure the people you talk to will be very understanding. :rolleyes:
The UK is already the laughing stock of the world at political and diplomatic level, thanks to our spineless poodle of a Prime Minister who has managed to by hypnotised by the single most stupid, incompetent, thick, useless and deranged US President in history.
Any multi-national force is useless without US backing. It will not have the staying power, the leadership or the logistics to stay for the long term.
The US is by far the biggest contributor to the UN:
I could be wrong but that list reflects the outstanding amounts owed by member nations.
And the issue with the US is that it has not paid its dues for 3 or more years now. So the biggest contributor it might or might not be, but the UN has managed just fine without the money the US owes and it does not depend on America for its survival or even smooth running.
In any case there would be zero problem for the rest of the countries to do a kitty and collect the contributions the US is supposed to pay. They could pay 50 times as much in fact, without much of a problem.
Large scale operations would no doubt pose a big problem at present, but not all operations are by any means big. Europe is also getting more than 100 transport planes within the next 18-months, will give them (and the UN if so needed) the capability to do large scale logistical transport without US assistance.
Without US backing and help, the UN would collapse completly.
I'm not forcing you to reply, your stubborness keeps you here. Your bitter cynicism amazes me, despite the fact that Saddam was a terrible man who murdered millions you maintain that removing him was a mistake.
Yet without this attidute nothing would ever get done, the US would stay at home, intervene nowhere and I guarantee the USSR would control all of Western Europe now.
Oil is too valuable a resource to be placed in the hands of a very unstable regime and country.
What is the alternative to American leadership (not conquest) ?
The unavoidable reality is that the exercise of American power is key to maintaining what peace and order there is in the world today. Imagine a world in which the U.S. didn’t exercise this power. Who would handle a nuclear-armed North Korea? Who would prevent the one-party state of China from acting on its pledge to gather democratic Taiwan into its fold? Who would be left to hunt down Islamic terrorists increasingly interested in getting their hands on weapons of mass destruction? Who could have contained, let alone defeated, a tyrant like Hussein, preventing him from becoming the dominant power in the Middle East? Who can prevent the Balkans from slipping back into chaos? Who is going to confront regimes like those of Iran, Syria and Libya as they rush to get their own weapons of mass destruction?
America will bribe, bully, threaten, punish and invade any nation which hides terrorists, shields them or threatens America in any way.
Forcing Israel to do this by cutting aid would make things far worse. In fact Sharons plan of disengagement is an excellent idea. Pie in the sky plans for full peace in the area are nonsense, just keeping the two sides from killing each other is the best we can hope for.
Who said im overlooking it? America is liberating these people, and on top of that it is making sure that a huge oil deposit is not under the control of a madman. Im sure you remember Saddam fired oil wells in the first Gulf War in Kuwait - that must never be allowed to happen again.
This is fucking bollocks and you know it. Have you ever been to Israel? Its the most equal society in the Middle East.
Im sure France of Britains reaction would be much the same if it was invaded repeatedly by its neighbours and its children by blown up by murderous fanatics. Your naivete of the situation is stunning.
Of course it was.
To the degree that a nation state cannot make its own laws, has no control over tax policy and is not in command of its armed forces. We both know that was what I meant. Now answer the question, do you deny that the EU federal superstate laid out in the Constitution erodes the power of individual nation states?
Gold is not essential to the same degree, water is not going to run out.
Its not just Americans and their cars, its the whole damn world. Unless you want the whole human race to go back to the stone age, you have to be prepared to make tough decisions. However, I dont know what you are talking about when you say 'a few hundred thousand lives'.
I did not say 'Jews', I said 'Israelis' which as you well know has a large Arab minority. As for the West, its full of all races and cultures. Race has nothing to do with it.
Reagan personally found Aparthetid revolting, but in government you sometimes have to lend support to those whom you despise. Have you learned nothing? Governments dont go on moral codes, they look at the big picture andvarious political and economic factors. Besides, you didnt address my example of Reagan personally rejecting all forms of racism. He was the Govenor of California for fucks sake!
Or a man who used sometimes excessive means to defend his own country from its numerous and bloodthirsty enemies.
You are mad. If you can in any way equate the free market with facism, your moral compass is severely bent. Give me evidence that says free market capitalism is directly responsible for 2billion peoples 'poverty'.
Left wing social democracies do NOT WORK. As shown by Britains failure as one in the 70's and Germanys now bloated welfare state. Over there people now have to pay to see their GP. 'Right wing intolerance' what nonsense is this? Reagan and Thatcher made their countries work again. There are no death camps of industrial murder in Britain and the USA, the only ones were in Germany under Hitler I believe. And do you know what kind of economics he used? Keynesianism, the foundation of Social Democracy.
The UK has more international influence than any other EU nation. As regards Bush being stupid, have you ever met him?
Yes, the small ones. Any scale operation to a coutnry larger than Luxembourg would require US aid to succeed.
Ohhhhhh! Lets peacekeep with our big bad transport planes! Europe has about 10% of the military capacity of the US, any long term peacekeeping operation of substance has to be done with US support.
I believe that armed intervention on sovereign nations can only be undertaken under extreme and urgent circumstances, for instance to avoid an impending catastrophe and bloodshed. Iraq did not fall into that category by a long shot, and in its torture and murder record was no worse than a number of regimes elsewhere.
If you believed that it is our obligation to intervene by force in all countries where serious human right abuses are being committed I would respect your position. I would not agree with it, but respect it. But you don't. You don't have the slightest problem with certain regimes and brutal butchers so long as it is in the political interest of the USA to keep them in power. And in the case of Iraq you didn't have a problem with Saddam himself for as long as the USA had a use with him. And then, the second the dog turns on its master and the US does not have further use for him, you start mouthing off about the poor Iraqis and how they must be saved from that terrible man.
I mean, you really must be taking the piss!
Bullshit.
How low are you prepared to stoop to defend the indefensible? :rolleyes:
The US’ natural resources and weapons of mass destruction are too valuable and sensitive to be left in the hands of a very unstable, dangerous and aggressive regime and country.
So let’s launch a full invasion whichever the costs to take those resources and ensure the WMDs are never used by the lunatics in power today.
Surely you’ll agree with that, seeing as you agree going into other sovereign nations and steal their resources?
You worry me. You really do. :rolleyes:
The alternative? The alternative would be a caring and responsible USA that doesn’t bomb more than 21 countries in the last 5 decades for no good reason whatsoever. A USA that abides international law. A USA that doesn’t piss off the immense majority of the planet, creates new armed races with old foes and is the biggest single contributor to Islamic terrorism there has ever been.
Re North Korea: The US is doing fuck-all. Bush is not into the habit of doing anything about countries that can fight back (and boy, wouldn’t the Koreans give the US a royal kicking if Dubya attempted to invade them!). So being the fucking coward he is, Bush is all mouth and no delivery and North Korea in the meantime laughs out loud as it announces nuclear capability and launches ever more complex ICMBs.
Re Taiwan: You are probably right there, if only because it’s in the US’ economic interests. If the US had nothing to lose, Taiwan would have long gone into China’s fold, democracy or not.
Re Islamic extremists: Rubbish. The so-called ‘war on terror’ is nothing but a load of hot fucking air. The US, through its aggressive policy and utter incompetence has actually made Islamic terrorism infinitely stronger than it was a few years ago. A grand job, the US is doing!
Re Iraq: The US had no problem with Saddam being a very strong dominant force during the 80s, complete with US-provided WMDs. Who are you trying to kid?
Re the Balkans: Again, vetted interests made the US intervene. Just about a good outcome is now emerging out of it, but don’t think for a second the US gave a shit about the poor people there.
Re Iran and Syria: It is because of the US that they’re rushing to get WMDs. Firstly by continuing to block any UN attempts to have their insane, dangerous neighbour having its own WMDs checked. And secondly, by adopting an aggressive policy towards endless countries for no good reason whatsoever while at the same time not having the fucking balls to do anything to those countries with nuclear capability: namely North Korea.
The message? The only protection any nation can have against an ultra-aggressive, imperialistic USA is to acquire your own nukes.
A fine fucking job the US is doing in containing nations from acquiring WMDs!
To be continued below...
Care to explain the death squads in Central America? Care to explain the long and well established connections between the Bush and bin Laden families?
As repeated a million times before, the US does not give a shit about terrorists or murderers so long as it has a use for them.
Fact: for as long as the Israeli government refuses to dismantle every last illegal settlement there will be no peace.
For as long as the Israeli government refused to return all the stolen land from 1967 there will be no peace.
At no point in history has the Israeli government offered to do that.
And until that happens it will NEVER, EVER, be peace in the region.
Give it a fucking rest will you? You didn’t give a flying fuck about those poor oppressed Iraqis when Saddam was a friend of the West.
You really sicken me.
What universe do you live on???
Thank you very much, I’m glad you’re finally beginning to understand the plight of the Palestinian people.
Of course it wasn’t.
Yes, I deny it. Try to understand what the Constitution is, and try to understand that all of this has been happening many decades before the Constitution was ever dreamed up. But let’s start another thread on this separate subject…
[quoteGold is not essential to the same degree, water is not going to run out. [/quote] But you get my drift…
Oh yes you do.
Saying the lives of us Westerners and Israelis are worth more than Arabs’ is as racist as it goes in my book, as it was to anyone else who saw your comment and was equally repulsed by it.
Disgusting.
He told you that did he?
As I said, would you care to name a single reason why supporting the Apartheid would be in anyone’s interest?
Not that if it even was a reason it could possibly justify supporting one of the most fucking obscene and odious regimes in the history of mankind.
What’s wrong with you Matadore?
Yep, I can see how 1,000 women and children refugees living in another country are a threat to the State of Israel.
I could have sworn earlier that you couldn’t possibly stoop any lower, but incredibly you are managing it.
Just as mad as equating communism with fascism Matadore.
Had enough. Will finsh dealing with the rest of your tirade tomorrow.
On the first point, He also clearly warns us against judging others.
On the second, like you state he HAD slaves. He lived as a slave-owner and died as one. Does a will absolve one of their crimes?
If a will had been found for Hitler ordering the camps to be emptied and its inhabitants freed, would it change your mind about him?
As a descendant of slaves I can hold no admiration for such men.
A lot of hypocrisy around in those days, even ex-slaves were doing it, this Equiano fellow has been taken to the hearts of black campaigners but his feet were of clay
Hypocrisy existed and continues to do so. This is this the first time I've read of this figure in a lifetime of interest in black history. I'm not saying he didn't exist as read, (at last, good link
So someone once involved turned against the trade. I know ex-junkies/users turned brilliant drugs counsellors once clean.
So what? ask yourself.
oh but he is. i was at a music event for primary schools in an inner-city area, some ill-informed twit of a music teacher had composed a song about him (dreadful it was) and the hapless young pupils were singing it
i've met some black ppl who've made slightly bitter comments about slavery, it's a facet of history, grim things happened then including the enslavement of white ppl by the Moors but hey, that's history
I doubt they'd have had a great life had they stayed in Africa
Those people have a level of care, welfare, health and public services that anyone else could only dream of.
Have you been to the US? Are you aware of their state of public health, or the public transport, or the help provided to the disadvantaged or the elderly?
Please...
The only thing Reagan and Thatcher achieved was to line the pockets of the rich while increasing the gap between them and the poor.
Child poverty more than doubled during Thatcher’s legacy. The economy entered a series of booms and busts good for nobody (other than City speculators, bankers and the likes). Many millions were left far worse off by Thatcher and Reagan.
Add a tour of Northern Europe to the countries you ought to visit…
It did. Now it is regarded as the laughing stock of the international community. A voiceless poodle no longer capable of independent thinking or policies.
As regards to Saddam being evil and a brutal dictator, have you ever met him?
Gosh, I am actually surprised that you understand the basic elements of photosynthesis. Although clearly not the implications of a lack of oxygen.
Hmmm. Overheating and the potential of forest fires vs suffocation of the global population. Guess which one I would be more concerned about.
Of course, we could also look at the cause over “overheating” and the changes in global climates.
Do you know that one? It wouldn't include de-forestation, by any chance would it?
Do they teach mathematics in the US?
Let’s just look at the top three on that list shall we? 2bn Christian, 2.2bn not Christian. That doesn’t include jews, buddists etc.
Not tell me, how can that possibly mean that there are more Christians on this planet than non-christians?
And my question was how does the American death penalty fit with their “christian heritage”?
I may be mistaken but I don’t recall Christ being a supporter of the death penalty.
No it isn't. It's against a select band of terrorists who put themselves above the US radar.
Do you know what is happening in your own country? How many muslims have been "arrested" under the Patriot Act, without any evidence that they are terrorists or even linked?
Do you know why the US attacked Afghanistan and Iraq in the name of the WoT, yet doesn nothing about Saudi Arabia, even though the majority of WTC attackers were Saudi, as is OBL?
Over here we have an expression “avoiding the question”. It means that when you don’t like something, you just ignore the issue which was raised.
So, do you think that the decline in morals over the past 50 years has been the result of much of US culture?
You must have misunderstood what I mean. Unless you believe that the moral decline in the US has come about as a direct result of God’s word?
Is it wrong to kill? Yes or no.
Remember that you argue that there is no grey area, right/wrong is simply black/white.
You cannot have balance with one-sided extreme views. Surely you understand that?
So, how does that differ from my position?
and with a single comment you show your complete lack of understanding of humanity. How truly “christian” of you.
How would they “teach” people not to “disobey”?
Why punish when education offers better results?
Actually not a tree-hugger. More someone who is aware that we need to strike a balance.
I’m not obsessed with oil, but I am obsessed with over use. This will exhaust the resource quickly. Then what?
Fantastic impression of an ostrich. You really need to look into the actions which are being taken in your name and not to rely on the christian right for your information.
As I pointed out above, balance requires more than one viewpoint.
Is it evil not to care if you poison people or not? Or is that acceptable?
Thus denying them their democratic right. If they want a fundamental regime, why can’t they have one?
There was an element of that, I will not deny. But there was one hell of a lot of duplicitous activity. Have you read anything about it or do you just rely on right-wing sources for your information?