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Crime prevention, or clear up...
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
A few weeks ago I commented on these boards about my lack of exposure to crime locally. I asked if this meant that I lived in a crime free area, or whether the reality was that publicity about crime increases people’s fear and belief that the UK is a crime ridden society.
Indeed there is another thread about the media’s sensationalist approach to reporting crime elsewhere on these boards.
Since I wrote that piece though, things have changed and I would like to share two stories with you about local crime and different ways of solving the crime and the potential from crime prevention.
The first story is about a man who left his mobile phone in his car. He had returned home, parked his car in the street outside his house, unpacked his shopping and walked indoors. About five minutes later he realised that his phone was in his car and went to collect it. Sadly for him, in the intervening period someone had put a brink through the window, reached in and stolen the phone. Nothing else was missing. A passing teenager (known in the village as a “nice” kid) saw what had happened and described the criminal to the man. The victim subsequently rang the police to report the crime. They took some details, gave him a crime number and told him they would be in touch in 48 hours. They did contact him, just to see if the phone had been found, but never visited him or spoke to the witness. The phone has never been recovered.
The second story happened at the weekend. A child was riding home from the local rec on Saturday when his chain had come off. Stopping to walk home he was approached by a local teenager who offered to fix it, having done so the teenager asked if he could pop round the corner to get something. Being a trusting, innocent child, our victim agreed only to realise a few minutes later that the teenager wasn’t going to return it. In floods of tears the child returned home (expecting to be throttled by his father) only to find that he got a different reaction of anger. The father immediately phoned the police and was given the same message – a crime number and a promise to phone again in 48 hours. This time though the father wasn’t going to accept this and informed the policeman that if no-one was there in 30 minutes he would carry out his own investigation into the crime and that his methods were not the same as the police might use. No police presence occurred. The father, accompanied by two male friends, decided to seek out the criminal themselves. Armed with a household defence system (often known as the Louisville Slugger
) they drove around the village until they came across “the usual suspects” – the group of teens who always seem to be in the vicinity of any minor crimes. The men explained to the group that one of them had been seen on the bike and that they should find it and return it. They also explained the consequence of broken kneecaps.
The bike was returned the following day.
Now the reason I raise these two stories is the different approaches to law and order which it highlights, both in my little village, one "successful" and one not. Makes you think, doesn’t it?
Indeed there is another thread about the media’s sensationalist approach to reporting crime elsewhere on these boards.
Since I wrote that piece though, things have changed and I would like to share two stories with you about local crime and different ways of solving the crime and the potential from crime prevention.
The first story is about a man who left his mobile phone in his car. He had returned home, parked his car in the street outside his house, unpacked his shopping and walked indoors. About five minutes later he realised that his phone was in his car and went to collect it. Sadly for him, in the intervening period someone had put a brink through the window, reached in and stolen the phone. Nothing else was missing. A passing teenager (known in the village as a “nice” kid) saw what had happened and described the criminal to the man. The victim subsequently rang the police to report the crime. They took some details, gave him a crime number and told him they would be in touch in 48 hours. They did contact him, just to see if the phone had been found, but never visited him or spoke to the witness. The phone has never been recovered.
The second story happened at the weekend. A child was riding home from the local rec on Saturday when his chain had come off. Stopping to walk home he was approached by a local teenager who offered to fix it, having done so the teenager asked if he could pop round the corner to get something. Being a trusting, innocent child, our victim agreed only to realise a few minutes later that the teenager wasn’t going to return it. In floods of tears the child returned home (expecting to be throttled by his father) only to find that he got a different reaction of anger. The father immediately phoned the police and was given the same message – a crime number and a promise to phone again in 48 hours. This time though the father wasn’t going to accept this and informed the policeman that if no-one was there in 30 minutes he would carry out his own investigation into the crime and that his methods were not the same as the police might use. No police presence occurred. The father, accompanied by two male friends, decided to seek out the criminal themselves. Armed with a household defence system (often known as the Louisville Slugger
) they drove around the village until they came across “the usual suspects” – the group of teens who always seem to be in the vicinity of any minor crimes. The men explained to the group that one of them had been seen on the bike and that they should find it and return it. They also explained the consequence of broken kneecaps.The bike was returned the following day.
Now the reason I raise these two stories is the different approaches to law and order which it highlights, both in my little village, one "successful" and one not. Makes you think, doesn’t it?
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Comments
certainly does. its sad when you have to take the law into your own hands and its even sadder that people can steal off of a young child, must make them feel dead hard. can you just imagine the respect they must earn when they go braggin to thier mates "hey man a just stole a bike off a wee wean and a didnae even huv tae use ma chib, how hard am a?" oh if he was in my gang i would be like sooooo impressed :rolleyes:
Oh, I love that song!
It does yeah, sometimes feels like police can't be bothered to look into smaller crimes. I mean i know they are busy but when they arent it would be good if they helped with them, as it might even stop those sorts of crimes turning into bigger ones.
I agree. Four times we reported a gang of youths creating a nuisance around our way and the fifth time they'd actually attacked a passer by. If they'd been dealt with the first time that might not have happened but the police didn't come any time we called them. One night they said 'its friday night pet, whaddya expect'.... hmmm.
The man and the father are the same person.
And it was he who started the thread.
Oh dear Mok hope alls ok now, its a shame that people have to resort to taking action themselves, it really is.
You say that these group of kids are always the same ones causing trouble, hanging about etc. Perhaps if they were given something to do then they wouldnt cause trouble.
I know when I was a teenager growing up in a small ish town we used to vandalise things, smash and break stuff for no real reason at all. If we'd had something to do rather than just go out and drink in the park we probably wouldnt have caused problems.
I was angry that someone could do that to him, and I was angry that the police weren't interested because it is a "petty crime".
So yes, I took the law into my own hands. I've actually written to the chief constanble telling him that he should remember that his police officers can only operate with the support and trust of the public. When they loose that - mob rules.
Don't blame you, wonder if you get a responce.
It's getting worse where i live too, contantly wondering if my cars gonna get smashed up ect. The kids have nothing to do round here so they turn to destroying things instead. Mind you i think the parents should be more strict. So many kids running around at 10/11pm not giving a shit. I wouldn't have done half the things people do now.
Being a complete geek I said yes and happily sat down trying to bounce people away from a fire on a trampoline. 15 minutes later my mum turned up and slapped me all the way home complaining about me giving away my new bike.
I got home and got ready to go out, still holding back some tears and then thought fuck it, ran down the road to the bridge with my Mum shouting after me.
There on the bridge was the teenage lad with my BMX, shitting himself that I'd run off with his game.
Moral of the story - it ain't always true but sometimes people are honest.
Nowadays there is absolutely zero respect for the law, people and society and it is present in the current generation who will be running the country in 15 years time.
MOK, I envy you for what you did, sad as it is I believe sometimes you really do need a sledgehammer to crack a nut, although you do have to be careful in situations like that.
If the bike hadn't have been returned, would you for example have followed up with your threat? Teenagers may not respect the law, but they can see a golden opportunity when they see one and wouldn't hesitate to have pressed charged against you.
But anyway, sorry for the doom and gloom, well done that man:birthday:
It has turned many 100,000's of young people into criminals and made them fear the police.
Punishment and medical attention all in one!
(I hear they could use you over at Abu Graib!)
I couldn't agree more Jim. I do think that there is still in inherent honesty in most people, but that a few scrotes make us question and lose faith in everyone. My son will no longer trust anyone, and that troubles me.
In the first story I mentioned a kid who is just like that. He's honest, he's polite and I know that I can trust him. I'd like to think that people said the same about my children. In fact talking to some of the locals (when I was searching for the bike) I was proud to hear so many say that they couldn't understand why someone would do that to him because he's a good kid, always polite etc.
I don't actually subscribe to that belief. Crime has been prevalent throughout history and the only difference now is that we report it and prodice statistics. All these do is promote fear.
In 33 years I have been the victim of crime less times than I can count on one hand. So I still have faith.
It's just that I don't have faith in the police anymore.
I know that you guys have a tough job and that you cannot please everyone. I know that the liberal attitudes of today have made a difference and I understand why they have happened.
The problem is that there are times when a strong stance needs to be taken and I don't think that the police are either capable (or allowed) to use the tactics which they need to use.
When I was a kid the village copper was someone who garnered respect. He was kind and friendly until you crossed the line. The he came down on you like a tonne of bricks, and it wasn't unheard of him using similar tactics to those I used. Fear and intimidation.
You knew where you stood, and you knew that you wouldn't get away with anything. Now the police are so hamstrung that they cannot act like this when they want to. They cannot take a zero-tolerance approach like this to petty crime because the public (or should I say lawyers) wouldn't let it happen.
I think we've lost something there.
Very carefully, trying to avoid evidence where possible. They would have been picked off, one by one and scared rather than hurt. I'm not stupid enough to actually do GBH in such a pre-meditated manner. They didn't know that though and that's what counted.
Having said that, I'm not sure what I would have done if I'd caught one of them with the bike at the time.
Interestingly, I have since spoken to the kid's parents (the one who rode off on the bike) and they mentioned my phone. I had never said anything to them about it. Apparently they had heard and had even searched his bedroom because they thought he might be responsible :eek: So even they know what he is like.
I didn't get into the whole "why don't you take responsibility" argument with them but he has been pretty much left to his own devices all his life and I really do think that this is one of the reasons he's turning out like he is.
Hell, I like to offer a full service.
I actually told the kids the medical implications of broken kneecap, the levels of pain, the lifelong walking problems etc. So I guess my background helped!
Nah, too lenient for my liking...
Because Laws are not Laws now. They are sets of rules and regulations arbitrary established by the government in order to satisfy this or that special interests. Where the respect can come from? Sad? Why??
I think it’s wonderful! True.
In this respect America looks like a model state for British govt. Now America with hers War-on-Drugs has the second biggest percentage of imprisoned population in the world ( after Russia). I’m afraid if UK follows this way you’ll get your own British GULAG…
Because the police aren't allowed to use the discipline necessary on petty criminals.
Not so long ago they could do pretty much whatever they wanted to petty offenders and it taught them a lesson.
Then the lawyers and liberals who don't live with the effects of crime got involved and ruined the system.
Mok, I was only asking out of curiosity, not to catch you out, because I agree with what you did, and I wish the police could do the same, although in a more subtle manner, i.e.locking someone in the cells for the night instead of prosecuting them.
Thats what laws have always been.
Depends on the circumstances.
I'll have to agree with you on this.
I think it's not the police's fault but an overstretching of their services.
Are you a dog? You don't chase people on bikes too, do you?
~~~~~~~~~
Back on topic. I am actually surprised by the reception of my actions. I expected to be lambasted for taking the law into my own hands. What I did was wrong, I know that. It just got the job done.
Ultimately though, isn't that what we should be empowering our police to do - get the job done.
I'm not condoning letting them act with a free reign and there should be unacceptable levels but do people think that the lawyers and "human rights" approach has actually made criminals lives easier...?
There are many other things that could be done, drastic reform of the drug law is one.
But mainly I'd like to see much more money going into youth projects, football clubs, even things like just a youth club they could go to. Most things like this start when the kids have nothing to do.
The case of the taxi driver who almost got killed when a little brat threw a brick at his cab from a road bridge comes to mind. The taxi driver managed to find the brat, grabbed him by the ear, chucked him into the back of his cab and drove him to the nearest cop shop.
As you will already be guessing, the brat was let off without a warning and the taxi driver was told he'd be charged with assualt and unlawful detention/kidnapping/whatever the term is.
Whereas people have the right not to be assaulted or taken somewhere against their will, in cases like this when the assault amounts to nothing more than grabbing someone by the ear and the kidnapping was simply a citizen's arrest, the kid should have had the book at him and the cab driver congratulated, not made the criminal.
Back in Spain my mate's dad, who had ran a bar for decades in the same spot, saw the son of a customer and friend of his breaking into a car and stealing the radio. He ran out to the kid, took the radio from him, slapped him in the face and ordered him to go to his dad and explained what had happened. When the father came down to the bar he thanked him for slapping his son and making him go home and tell what he'd done.
Wrong thing to do, slapping a teenager who isn't even family, but no police was involved and the slapping was seen for what it was. I was told the kid was not known to commit further crimes and it'd appear much more good than harm was done by my mate's father.
But then I'm all for twats who cause trouble on a Saturday night outside a pub or even more twatish inside A&E getting a bit of mace in the face to teach them a lesson.
Today the postman deliever a letter from Kent Police, address to my son, saying something along the lines of being sorry that he had been the victim of crime etc. They enclosed a leaflet for Victim Support.
Ryan is 10.
For me, the best form of victim support would have been for them to come and investigate the crime, not send letters offering conselling services.
It's a mad, mad world alright.