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What's the point?
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Sometimes I wonder what the point is in engaging in debate with people who's world view is so utterly skewed and paranoid that it is utterly alien and baffling to me. People who consistently make up stories, refuse to actually back up their views in any way and who seem so filled with hate and suspicion for anyone different to them.
Now I have known a lot of different people in my life, from street junkies and prostitutes to teachers, accountants, artists, designers, pop stars to directors of businesses, solictors and local politicians. I've been able to get along with all these people and communicate with them.
Yet there are certain people on here whose world view I find so utterly at odds with my own experience of reality, that we may as well be living on different planets.
Is there any point debating with these people?
and yes, I'm sure they feel the same about me
Now I have known a lot of different people in my life, from street junkies and prostitutes to teachers, accountants, artists, designers, pop stars to directors of businesses, solictors and local politicians. I've been able to get along with all these people and communicate with them.
Yet there are certain people on here whose world view I find so utterly at odds with my own experience of reality, that we may as well be living on different planets.
Is there any point debating with these people?
and yes, I'm sure they feel the same about me
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Comments
Ern on U&% called you a preacher and he's right
Look at your last couple of posts on Maxine Carr thread and tell me you've attempted to debate
I find sometimes its not even when you are actually talking with people when they take in your point. After they go away and mull it over a bit then sometimes it makes them think a little.
But then there are people who just dont think, who are just bigoted/racist/whatever and there really isnt much you can do about it. Except maybe round them all up and put them to work in the gulag.
I can say the same about myself ( and about Blagsta from an alien planet J)
Try to put yourself in their shoes and you’ll understand better both their pluses and minuses. You know, every worldview even the craziest one has some pluses. ( the opposite is not true. There is at least one worldview that has no minuses. I’m talking about Anarcho-Capitalism of course).
Take capital punishment for instance. The majority of the population would love to see a monster like Huntley dead for his crime. People like you disagree with that view on the basis of "morality".
But, who defines morality?
From previous threads you and others seem to contradict yourselves. You believe a moral minority should be able to decide that people should live, and be given minor punishments for their crimes, no matter how serious. You say that the majority of people aren't clever enough to decide over such a complex issue.
But when that moral minority make a decision that contradicts your beliefs you complain. Take the war for example. Most people recognised Saddam was a monster, the government agreed and we went to war. The moral minority made a decision that contradicted your beliefs and you went mad and started protesting to anyone who cared to listen.
Instead of criticising the immoral amongst us because we have a different view to you, kindly remember that most of your views no matter how right, or wrong put you in the minority in this country.
Yes, most of us may be "sheep" but we all have an opinion. Ill-informed or not the MINORITY of people have no right to dictate to us what our opinion should be.
Yes, I'm talking about you, among others. Your view of the world is so at odds with most other people, that it totally baffles me.
And it doesn't surprise me that you agree with ern on U75, he's a self confessed troll with some decidedly dodgy views.
but somepeople who i dont know seem just young and naieve, its good just to make your point and hope even some it rubs off even if it doesnt seem it, cause who likes to change thier mind fully in a debate, its called pride
But if people consistently fail to see any positives to a viewpoint then, really, what is the point?
Morality? Don't think so.
As Blagsta says, try along the lines of "compassion" and the belief that a) two wrongs don't make a right and b) the justice system is fallible enough to prevent killing people. Take the Birmingham Six, for instance, though you probably think that they're just six micks who probably did it anyway.
Ask all these people if they would like their son to be hanged when he was innocent, then ask them if they support the deatrh penalty, and get back to me.
Decide that people should live? Shouldn't the person in question decide that?
I've dealt with punishment before, ad infinitum. Not murdering someone because they're "guilty" is not a "minor punishment", but punishments should fit the crime, and should be equally weighted against all sections of society (something which penalty notices do not do).
Yes, I believe that people should prevent racism, should prevent illegal wars, should prevent bigotry and cruelty. Unless you think nobody should dictate anything then your point is meaningless.
Though, of course, "most people" would agree with anti-racism views, so there's nothing "minority" about it.
I started the debate on intelligence and voting. If you can't understand the concept of Devil's Advocate by now you never will.
Moral minority? I assume you mean the GOVERNMENT who are, let's face it, slighlty less than moral.
And the majority have no right to dictate by sheer weight of numbers.
Why?
Blagsta, sorry it wasn't aimed totally at you. Just a possible answer. And I'm in no way suggesting that Lady Muck etal represent the majority, like yourself they are another side of the political spectrum, with the majority of people floating somewhere between.
Well if you debate a subject its not just one person you are debating with. Many people just look on these boards and dont post, many have views which you will never change and then we have people who's views you can change purely by debating. So by debating you could change quite a few peoples view point.
Debating is good.........I just need to learn how to do it
I agree. We get this guy in work who lies all the time and talks out his arse... no I mean seriously he lies and I know he's lying. Anyway, I tried to have a debate about religion and totally kicked his arse and in the end he just turned around and said...
"You know what, I've done a lot more reading on religion than you and I'm older. You're too young to understand..."
This is bearing in mind I'm 20 years old and did an assignment on religion and have looked in to it myself. I mean he's made up stuff about the occult that I know isn't true through my own reading and learning and he always tells me that I'm not as clever as him because he's about 15 years older than me and he has a better job. So I asked him...
"So, what reading have you done?" To which he replied after a silence.
"Ummm.... what do you mean?"
"Based on your arguement held you implied you know more than me because you're older and you've read more. Who's writing did you read to form such an opinion?"
... another silence...
"Uhm... Crowley... Freud... Marx"
"Oh, which of Marx's and Crowley's works have you read?" And he just frowned and said.
"You see, you've just proved me right because we're arguing about religion. I know what I'm talking about."
"Really..." I shrugged. "Well you haven't backed up anything you've said, I have and I know who Crowley and Marx are... Crowley's heavy going. maybe ignorance causes religion"
"Oh, so I'm ignorant am I?" I smirked.
"So am I apparently because I'm much younger than you and have read much less..." :rolleyes:
Yadda yadda... sorry, but I hate the "You're younger and thus inferior" debate, or because you earn less than somebody you obviously know less. It pisses me off :mad: If you'rew gonna debate don't shout the opposition down and use reliable sources to back up what you're saying.
Do some reading on Maximilien Robespierre and you'll find out.
Minorities need protecting from majorities, it's a simple fact.