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Bin Ladens truce with Europe
BillieTheBot
Posts: 8,721 Bot
I dont know how many of you have heard the coverage about Bin Ladens most recent tape.
In it he suggests that if Europe stopped its actions against Muslim then they would call a truce and only go after Israel and America.
Personally I think, from his point of view this is a smart move. If he stops all attacks in Europe then, as sad as it is, Europeans will be more reluctant to do anything about him. The US will get even more isolated and lash out even more, causing even more converts to his cause.
It is thought Britain is lumped in with Europe on this, which is strange because recently he said we're as bad as the US.
Your thoughts?
In it he suggests that if Europe stopped its actions against Muslim then they would call a truce and only go after Israel and America.
Personally I think, from his point of view this is a smart move. If he stops all attacks in Europe then, as sad as it is, Europeans will be more reluctant to do anything about him. The US will get even more isolated and lash out even more, causing even more converts to his cause.
It is thought Britain is lumped in with Europe on this, which is strange because recently he said we're as bad as the US.
Your thoughts?
Beep boop. I'm a bot.
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Comments
I'm asking because the only action I can think he would classify as "aggression against Muslims" is keeping troops in Iraq and Afghanistan. And it's only Britain, Spain, Italy and Poland I can think of as having troops there. The majority of European countries have no troops in either country.
It does seem to be a slight change of tack for him though.
I guess Spain threatening to move its troops out of Iraq has shown how things could be achieved with the use of bombs.
If I were him I would try my best to isolate America, that way its much weaker.
Let's not forget that they are a bunch of murderous bastards with a very dangerous and extremist agenda.
Though to be fair, that is precisely what the US forgot, or rather ignored, when it was happily arming, financing and training bin Laden and his chums for many years before the dog turned on its master.
What Europe should do is what practically every member of the public here and elsewhere has been crying out for.
1) Stop following or endorsing US foreign policy when it is seen as not right or beneficial for us or those who cannot defend themselves against it.
2) Furthermore, stand up in a firmer way against US government abuses, bullying and flaunting of international law
3) and last but certainly not least, tackle once and for all the Israeli-Palestinian conflict by doing what it should have been done decades ago (and what the US has no intention whatsoever of ever doing): bring Israel to account, seek to put an immediate stop to all the abuses and murders being carried out, and see that Israel fulfills its obligations and complies with its outstanding UN resolutions regarding the illegal appropriation and subsequent occupation of Palestinian land that is at the very heart of the conflict.
Last night's disgraceful little accord between Bush and the fat murdering bastard Ariel Sharon PM, ignoring Bush's own Roadmap to [Nowhere] and endorsing Israel keeping dozens of illegal settlements in the West Bank, it's yet another example of why there is never going to be peace in the Middle East until someone makes the Israeli government fulfill its obligations- since the Israeli electorate seems incapable of doing so.
if someone offers peace ...you can't not talk to them.
europe has a massive islamic population ...the chance for us all to ditch the hatred is wonderful.
yes israel should be sorted out.
what kind of truce he is offering isn't very clear yet but ...i believe he is now a lot weaker than he was. it is increasingly difficult to raise and move large sums of money. it's increasingly difficult to communicate propperly with the rest of his merry men.
lets see what he's offering.
get him on the des and mel show ...NOW!
only a fool would not fear such a man.
This coalition has been a laughing stock in diplomatic circles and rightly so.
I would also advise you to stop accepting the bogus rhetoric about what motivates the terrorists and learn just how much of this is a direct repercussion of our repeatedly misguided foreign policies, support for repressive regimes and our numerous military interventions which have brought misery to so many around the world.
Our leaders would love to keep the public mired in myopic and ideologically inspired denial, but what goes around comes around and we've made our own bed by allowing our leaders to return us to the same failed attempts at global dominance time and again.
You think his offer of peace is genuine?
What exactly would you speak about? Maybe have a natter about Europe 'killing Muslims' and say sorry to binny even though it isn't true? don't make me laugh you can't negotiate with terrorists like Bin Laden.
how many terrorists go on to be important politicians and policy makers?
not talking to your enemy is the dumbest thing i ever heard.
United States: 135,000
UK: 8,700
Italy: 3,000
Poland: 2,400
Ukraine: 1,650
Spain: 1,300
Netherlands: 1,150
Australia: 850
Japan: 550
Bulgaria: 485
The IRA had a clear agenda and goals which could be understood,
Bin Laden doesn't represent anyone, certainly not Muslims, apart from fanatics and has his goals and ideas are hate fuelled, not realistic. Bin Laden, an important politician? It's not gonna happen anyway, it's just a ploy to get more European support.
Bearing in mind that Europe has some 50 countries you could say that ''Europe's'' involvement in the war and subsequent occupation of Iraq is minimal. That's why I don't understand where bin Laden is coming from... Why not mentioning the main countries involved (and the only ones with a significance diplomatic profile), namely the UK, Italy and Spain?
Perhaps he's just saying it's not just those countries involved in Iraq but also those with great power within the EU, in particular France and Germany, who could be targeted in order to pile pressure and further divide Europe from the US, despite them being fiercely opposed to the war.
Random bombings, tapes (which could be any arabic speaking person for all we know) and videos (as easily made from archived footage with vocal overlays, far from beyond the capabilities of our intelligence services) all instantly reported as "from Bin Laden" and so readily swallowed. How easily the CIA has spun people round in the midst of conflicts which have failed to achieve international support.
How many have bothered to stop and actually think on all that has been ascribed to this convenient boogeyman? If even half of it were true then this gaunt man with his supposed debilitating ill health somehow manages to orchestrate more militant acts in more places around the globe and still have time to pop down to the recording studio to put out his next edition in the endless OBL series.
Not even the White House has been so active in presenting itself to the public and they aren't "on the run".
Pardon me folks, but i detect a concerted effort to maintain this perpetual war (to the continued profit of those currently milking our skyrocketing defence budgets) by whatever means necessary, and this kind of PR is precisely what one would expect to see used to keep the political debate heated and divisive and the pundits continually guessing.
Perhaps one day, in the fashion of the Pentagon Papers, we may yet come to see that Al Qaeda never was more than a scant group of Saudi malcontents inflated to a world threat to serve a political agenda.
Until then, i, for one, will view these video and tape claims with significant scepticism and certainly in connection with developments in the international political debate. Funny how these tapes tend to appear when fresh criticisms or revelations of lies hit the front pages.
suicide bombers are not of the imagination ...they are very real and in this mad world there are plenty of young people lining up to die. doesn't matter who's fault it may be ...it isn't going to go away.
no i don't believe the americans bombed spanish trains ...though i do accept they are willing and able to carry out such atrocities.
as for osama not being worth talking to cos he's mad, crazy etc ...wrong.
he is a very wealthy ...very educated and very charismatic figure.
an awful lot of people see this man as a saviour ...and thats not far fetched. he may well be the man who is ultimately responsible
for kicking the arses of the israelis ...millions agree they need a kicking. wouldn't you see this man as a saviour from behind your refugee camp fence?
osama is not someone to be ignored or shrugged off. a man to be hunted and killed maybe ...but that doesn't look like happening anytime soon.
we should always talk to people who can cause mass death.
this man has influence!
Again, MR. thats what "officials" are routinely quoted as claiming. But its acceptance without question is where the public fails in its civic duty to demand full proof.
This how the reality of a situation is systematically and incrementally inflated to mythical proportions. Aren't we both old enough to recognise the carry over from the Cold War era? Lots of inflated myths became "common knowledge" through no other agency than repeated inundation of claims in the media and by our government officials. Much that wasn't in fact true or at the very least failed to tell the whole story of what we were up to via back channels to exacerbate tensions was readily swallowed then as it is now.
Given the total untrustworthiness of those at the forefront of the spreading conflict, Ill stick to believing that this whole WoT was a fabricated lie from the start. The interests directly benefitting in spades from all this only deepens the liklihood of the biggest and most atrocious fraud perpetrated upon our respective publics (and, of course, those suffering and dying under the barrage of our tomahawks and depleted uranium rounds) since Vietnam.
Until then, ill gladly accept the mantle of "conspiracy theorist", it will make the "I told you so" all the more satisfying.
Exactly what I said.
Co-operation as in what? As in hitting towers with planes? Or just keeping it simple, and targetting trains?
Seriously, how would you co-operate with him?
We talk=We recognise his right to exist.
This treaty shows how desperate the man really is, you dont come to the negociation table unless you are losing.
And he is losing.
Not true. And as much as I hate to say this, he is not losing.
The attack in Spain, made it obvious that he'll continue through Europe as well.
The attack in Spain, while tragic, merely confirms that European governments do not take terrorism seriously.
There have been no attacks on the two major targets of Bin Laden.
Over 90% of Al Queda leadership has been killed, their training camps and bases in Iraq and Afghanistan have been destroyed. Libya, one of the main funders of terrorism, has begun a new dialogue with the West.
Meanwhile, the whole world is looking out for him.
He is running out of places to hide.
Not to mention the continued push for democracy in Iraq, which, while a tough slog, is continuing .
The West is winning this War, but left wing apologists and appeasers , blinded by their hatred of Bush, will never admit to it.
They're still brainwashing their children, they're still more concerned about the west's wrongs than their own faults, and they're still as dangerous as ever.
Even more as for some reason, people feel sorry for them - and it was even suggested to "co-operate" with Bin Laden on this board.
We can only continue fighting them, but there's hell of a lot of way to go.
No, we have made a heck of a lot of progeress since 9/11.
Admitedly, we have a ways to go yet, but dont get despondant.
THe Iraq war was the first step in re modeling the arab world.
The line between fanatical murdering terrorists living in caves and fanatical murdering terrorists sitting in the White House becomes more blurred by the day.
No, I dont know how you can even say this.
Your moral compass is severely distorted.
Our goal and aim shouldn't be to re-model anything, except from our own safety threat.